Hi,

Firstly can I just say that I am an admirer of Wayne's work. But I am doing an article about him and would like to know what fans think of the fact that Wayne avoided military service in the hour of his countries need in order to further his own career. Surely that renders most of what he supposedly stood for meaningless. Really sorry if I offend anyone here but would love to hear what you guys have to say about it.

all the best

James.

James,

FIrst of all, welcome to the board room to what I think is the best John Wayne information and opinion center out there.

I wouldn't call Duke a draft dodger. Duke's actions was very dishearten to him for the rest of his life. He regretted not going to war, and fully supported America's involvement. He did his part in the states to help out, but decided to stay behind to build his career.

Now, to justify his actions from my prospective. The fact is when the United States entered into WWII in 1942, he was over 35 years old, had four children and a wife, and was starting out his movie career. I might add that he was having marital problems with his first wife, and was trying to work through that. He worked hard in "B" pictures for years, and finally got his big start from John Ford. The movie "Stagecoach" was released in 1939, and he was beginning to make a name for himself. His movie career could have been destroyed if he went to war. He hadn't gotton over that wall, and needed to get more experience. He didn't have the name like Jimmy Stewart or Clark Gable. He did have an injury that possibly could have sidelined him to go into service while in college (not a football injury). But his decision was based on building his career.

I believe that this was an appropriate decision, and I don't regret what he did. Tell me, who would play the part of Rooster Cogburn, John T. Chance, or Hondo Lane?

Now to take a line from my friend Smokey,
Cheers!

:P
Hondo

James,

Personally, I think John Wayne did a fine job supporting the war effort through his movies. Have you seen any of his war movies?

It probably served his wife and children better that he stayed state side (try to say that three times fast - stayed state side :D ).

Certainly, from my point of view anyway, he served the country for many decades after WWII through his movies. Even after the war, his war movies (They Were Expendable and The Sands of Iwo Jima, for example) helped us to feel a sense of pride.

John Wayne was a great man. Yes, he was human and had his faults, like all of us, but he stood for many things to many people. He couldn't have done that if he had died in the war.

Just my two cents . . .

Chester

When Maureen O'Hara was on Larry King a few months back she said that Wayne had physical ailments that people are not aware of that kept him out of the service. She did not elaborate.

Greeting and welcome to the forum!

First of all this subject always comes up. It must be a pick on John Wayne thing I guess. Some of the reasons that he didn't join that I heard of was #1 Family Exemption, which was legal. Married men with 3 to 4 or more children could file for military exemption. #2 He had a injury that went back to the football days at UCLA. It was this injury that prevented him from playing football and he lost his scholarship. In turn he had to work to go to college, which one of his jobs was being a prop man on a studio lot. Eventually, he got a small part in a movie that developed into a movie career years later.
I would like to also say that there were a lot of movie stars that did not join the military and no one make an issue of it. Bob Hope for one. He never joined the military, yet he has more honorary degrees and awards than John Wayne! No one yet has said anything about it. What about Ward Bond, Red Skelton, or Errol Flynn. The thing is, John Wayne was proud of his country and the military people who defended it. He would let everybody know it and it was because of this pride, the issue of his not enlisting in the military is questioned.
B) 'Ave a day!

Ward Bond had epilepsy that would have kept him out of the service.

This is a good question and one that needs to be addressed and here is my opinion.

John Wayne had a very difficult time in life before he became an A movie actor, he struggled financially at college and eventually had to leave because of an injury which shattered his dreams. He starts working within a new area and has to cut his teeth making low budget poor quality B movies for ten years while at the same time being stabbed in the back ie when he was at Columbia. Eventually the man becomes a star within the A movie league he has to choose whether to loose his status or keep it he chose to keep it which I believe was the correct choice. Below is what John Wayne done for people his country and the world as a whole without entering the war.

1. In his mid to late twenties he dived into a rough and violent sea to rescue a man who was drowning which he managed to do. This was a risky operation as the likely outcome to onlookers and his friends who were around him at the time was that he would get killed in his attempt but he refused to listen to them and saved the mans life.

2. Faced ending his career by publicly telling people he had done battle with cancer and defeated it. Not only was this an honest move but it also inspired millions and helped people face cancer and give them real hope that they too could defeat it.

3. Publicly supported America in its war in Vietnam faced ending his career again, boosted troop morale, give Americans real hope made a controversial movie relating to it.

4. Weeks before he died he was a very sick man and was asked to present an Oscar in a grueling 20 minute + session. His fans wanted him to avoid it but he wouldn’t hear of it. His courage was so great that he had to learn to walk and talk again and eventually presented the Oscar with real dignity!!!!!

5. Never once refused to give an autograph to one of his fans

6. At a special request went to a hospital to talk to a girl who had been in a coma for 3 weeks to which she came out of when she heard Dukes voice.

I could go on to name even more of the great achievements to which Duke accomplished, but in conclusion Duke was brave, he loved his career but was willing to loose it for the greater good of people, self sacrifice didn’t matter he inspired people to be real people, honest courageous and loyal etc etc it was Duke who invented the American dream and it is Duke who is a hero to the world both on and off screen.

Now I have a question for you James what would have been the point in Duke fighting in World War II answer that B)

Hi,

I just wanted to thank all of those who took the time to answer my question regarding John Wayne's decision not to fight in the Second World War. All of you provided with me with exactly the kind of information that I was after. All I knew really until I read your response was that he had simply avoided the draft. Would you mind awfully if I quoted some of your responses in my article? I think you have all made an able and convincing defence. Thanks also for the other names such as Errol Flynn I had forgotten about him and the war. Would any of you perhaps know of any other Hollywood actors who did not fight and with perhaps less convincing motives that John Wayne?

Well all the best,

James.

I cant ne 100% sure but I dont think Randolf scott or Cary Grant fought in the war you would need to check that out.

I was wondering if you are putting your article online so us John Wayne fans can view it.

hi jamesmarrison,

just to point out one fact errol flynn could not have joined the american defence force as he was an AUSTRALIAN not american so don't use him in your paper and i don't believe he ever became a US citizen.


cheers smokey

jamesmarrison

The only other actor I can think of who did not serve in a war with less convincing motives is Charles Chaplin. He claimed the only reason he did not go to war (WW 1) was because they (the English) did not call him up. Though most Americans didn't care, he was branded a coward by some of his fellow Englishmen. This issue would follow him for the rest of his career.
Also Gary Cooper did not serve his country. He was to young (14) to serve in WW 1 and too old (40s) for WW 2.
I personally don't think it matters if John Wayne served his country. Do you think any of todays actors are going to give up their career in movies to serve? Does any one really think that Keanue Reeves and his fellow actors would quit Hollywood to sign up? Get Real. Most people complain about others because it makes them feel superior.
I agree with Robbie, if possible, please post your report here so we can read it. Thanks!

Just my say, 'ave a day! http://www.angelfire.com/zine/timetraveler/johnwayne/170579_a.jpg

James:

Another insight which you may wish to include in your report, is the quiet fact that the real reason DUKE did'nt serve in WWII was that the U.S Government asked him not to. My reason is so stated:

With the war raging in Europe, and the Japaneese running rampant in the Pacific, certain individuals not active military were called to duty. One such character was John Ford (Commander U.S Navy at the time) was called to active duty for the duration of the "emergency" , so called at the time on September 11, 1941.
Ford was assigned to the office of the O.S.S (Office of Strategic Services). The forerunner of the C.I.A . John Ford's only superior was Colonel William "Wild Bill" Donovan. head of the O.S.S . And Donovans only superior was President Roosevelt. It may just be that Duke was asked covertly by the US thru Ford to not serve. The government knowing that it would need maximum effort from it's civilian population to wage war on two countries simultaneously, and what better than Wayne ( whos popularity was skyrocketing at the time) for the people to see as the quintesential serviceman waging that war in the theatres that that population was visiting every Saturday. Remember not every American family had a TV, much less a radio to receive their war news. But there were weekly trailers shown before every feature relating war news in the Atlantic or Pacific.
And I beleive that this is the main reason he did not serve. But it is my opinion only, after much research on Ford. Yes Duke had a family and injuries (not just football) that would have prevented him from serving. But this scenario seems to me anyway, as the one that has the most creedence.
But because he was convinced by his government, and by his trusted mentor and friend ( Ford) that by not serving he was doing his country the greater good! Is the "REAL" reason he did'nt serve.


Ethan B)

I have had this countless times and what really gets my goat is no one gives a damn that Roy Rogers never served.
If Gene Autry had NOT got to the service Roy would have probably have ended with the rest of the B cowboys.
Sinatra is another one. No one says anything.
Bill Clinton in a different time a different war didn't serve, and what do people say' oh yeah".

If your going to take a swipe at all OK, but just don't point out Duke.
They all have one thing in common 'They didn't want to ".

Rick

By the end of WWII about 25% of all male Hollywood employees (with the right age) were in the service. How 'bout the other 75%? To point out that JW did not serve is mainly becaused he developed (after the war) in an actor who was not afraid to speak up about his beliefs in US politics (when many other actors just shut up, because it's bad for business).
But I must say researching for an article about the subject needs more work than just ask around. Because it's mainly repeating false sources to the public which led to some beliefs about JW and WWII that aren't true, beginning with the publicity department's version of the "old football injury". A good source is "Pappy", Dan Ford's book about his grandfather and his involvement in the OSS, and Gary Willis' "John Wayne's America". Even if it is quite controversial about JWs involvement, it is very well researched. Ford tried to get Wayne in the OSS. Don't forget that Wayne took an USO tour which took him to the Pacific theater, and he stayed there for months.
Robert Taylor, Henry Fonda, Jimmy Stewart, Tyrone Power, Clark Gable (because he "wasn't interested in acting anymore after his wife Ginger Rogers died in a plane crash, returning from an bond tour) were the famous stars that did serve in WWII. Especially Stewart and Gable had problems to regain their status after the war.

Does anyone know the exact reason why John did not fight in World War II

Was it because of an injury
He wanted to further his career
He was scared (I dont actually believe this)
He was asked by the military to make movies instad
Family obligations

Everybody seems to have a different view but which one is correct?

B)

May I add the the books
Hollywood goes to War
and
Projections of War
(both available at amazon)
hold very good information about the war years and how the government and the film moguls cooperated to boost morale (Henry Fonda in fact wanted to go badly, but Darryl F. Zanuck pulled strings with Washington to hold him back for another war film, The Immortal Seargent; and Robert Taylor was held back to finish Song of Russia by the highest authorities, because they felt the film was more important than Mr. Taylor's service in uniform).
What John Wayne's reasons for not joining in were - depending on the sources, most books offer different versions. My personal beliefs are that it was a combination of different reasons: injury, father of three (or was it four?), pressure from Republic's Herbert Yates to keep his property and make more money for him, and: yes, after 10 years in B-movies he finally was in the A-List, the most important moment in his career. If he would have left at this very moment - he probably would have been out of business afterwards. I think it was to Dan Ford that he stated years later: "They would have made me a private", so he figgered he could do better fighting the propaganda war in Hollywood, with Flying Tigers, Reunion in France, Pittsburgh, The Fighting Seabees, Back to Bataan, (Germany was defeated when they started filming They Were Expandable) all propaganda movies. Not such a bad war record after all, ey?

Did I write Ginger Rogers died in that plane crash? How about that for misinforming people - it was Carole Lombard of course. Sorry. Have to stop messing around with those blondes.

Hi,
I was able to talk to John Wayne's son Michael about this subject. He told me that he did try to join but was turned down because of a shoulder injury. He also tryed to get John Ford to pull some strings to get him into Fords film unit but Ford said you would do more good staying home and making films to help the war effort.
John Wayne wanted to serve his country in the armed serve,but he couldn't so he did it a different way by making war films and selling war bonds.
Thanks.

Chris

Chris,

You've met Micheal Wayne?! I believe that he has passed away just recently. When did you meet him and how did you get the oppurtunity? What kinds of things did you ask him? Was it a friendly conversation or just a meeting and brief discussion? This is really neat. If you can't tell I'm a bit curious, tell us all about it.

Idaho

P.S. If you would rather just email me if it is a long story I'd like to hear all about the conversation. p.liebel@johnwayne.zzn.com

Hi no offence intended but is there any proof that John did actually try to enlist but was rejected if so this is brilliant news. I feel Michael Waynes comments on its own would be a little unsubstantial and biaist but I also hpe they are true.

B)

Well Robbie, I guess the only man who can answer that old Duke himself but he's kind of hard to get ahold of nowadays. What we do know, is that for the rest of his life he regretted not serving. We know that because those who knew him best have told us. We all believe that he was a brave man; if we didn't, would we still be his fans? I would not. After all, cowards would not have done nearly all of their own stunts in a hundred and some odd movies. We know that he did serve a helpful purpose during the war with his movies. We know that his guilt about not serving was initially a motivating factor for his involvement in politics. We know how involved he eventually became. We can't ask Duke what his reasons for not enlisting were. Anything we say is speculation, and we are naturally going to try to make excuses for him. He never made excuses. Why should we?
He was a man with faults and regrets, like any other good man. And he was a good man.

Did Duke when he was alive give any official position as to why he didnt enlist I for one am 100% sure that this man was not a coward but may have had a genuine reason non career related which may have prevented him from enlisting.

B)

Robbie,

Information listed above are the reasons for Duke not going to war. Most of the reason was the future of his career. I've carefully read information that everyone posted on this topic, and reseached from the biographers of Duke, and war years, and they give many different prespectives concerning their topics in their research. Duke's biographers, Randy Roberts & James S. Olson gives me the best answer that I have accepted.


Listed are the obivious reasons for him not enlisted in WWII which is FACT:

1. He was 35 years old. (Average age enlisting is 24/25 years old) (Born May 26, 1907, at the time 35 years 6 months, 1 week, 4 days old)
2. He had four small children under 10 years of age. (Ages 8, 6, 4, & 2, when U.S. was attacked at Pearl Harbor)
3. He had mariatal problems with his first wife which he was trying to work out. (Divorced Josephine Saenz Wayne in 1944)
4. He had an injury from his college days (Not related to football) that would have 4F him (shoulder separation, and knee injury).
5. He just started to work in "A" movies. (First moive, Stagecoach released February 15, 1939)
6. He was under contract with Republic Pictures that would not release him.

These are the facts listed above. There is no arguement or debate. He made his decision based on these issues, not just one reason, but many different and probably more. It's not black and white, it's a pretty gray area to consider. He didn't take his decision lightly.

He made during the war some great moive hits. All listed are (Dates listed are American releases):

Lady for a Night (December 29, 1941)
Reap the Wild Wind (March 19, 1942)
The Spoilers (w/ Marlene Dietrich) (April 13, 1942)
In Old California (June 11, 1942)
Flying Tigers (September 23, 1942)
Reunion in France (w/ Joan Crawford) (December 2, 1942)
Pittsburg (w/ Marlene Dietrich) (December 7, 1942)
Lady Takes a Chance (w/ Jean Arthur) (August 19, 1943)
War of the Wildcats (w/ Martha Scott) (October 25, 1943)
The Fighting Seabees (w/ Susan Hayward) (January 19, 1944)
Tall in the Saddle (w/ Ella Raines) (September 29, 1944)
Flame of the Barbary Coast (April 18, 1945)
Back to Bataan (May 31, 1945)
Dakota (November 2, 1945)

These are the facts. Duke did his part for the war effort helping with the USO. He was very busy, more than the soldiers.

As Northerner mentioned above, I guess you'll have to get the straight scoop from Duke himself. I am sure that you can draw from your own conclusions yourself and accept what you want. I posted the first comment from this post and continue to stand by it.

Again, I DO NOT accept him as a coward.

Have a good day, and Cheers

Hondo B)

Hondo,

EXCELLENT information and research. Thanks for taking the time to follow up on this.

I agree with you (and Northerner), there is no point in dwelling on something on which we have no way whatsoever of making a firm conclusion - John Wayne is dead, and can never tell us in his own words, and we can only make conclusions based on things like the factual information you have presented here.

But Robbie, I can appreciate your frustration and desire to "know for sure".

Chester

Hondo you cannot seriously call lady for a night a great movie its awful :angry: ;)

Your correct Chester it is frustrating not knowing for sure I am really disappointed that many web sites and books claim Duke did everything possible to avoid active service and was false because of what he displayed onscreen.

B)

hi all,

i have to say that personally i don't think that it is relevent whether or not the duke tried to get in to the forces durning ww2, he did his best for his country the one way that he could by doing the movies that he did showing how brave the men and women who were able to join were. if you want to really sort this out for once and for all try reseaching the defence archives they may or may not still have a record of whether he tried to join.


cheers smokey

Robbie,

If you read carefully on the above thread, I said he made during the war SOME great movies. Listed are the ones he made during the war.

<_<

I didn't say that they were all great, but some great ones. And I didn't edit either. Nothing was changed!


Smokey, your right it's not that relevent at this point. I am personally glad he didn't. We wouldn't be talking right now, and a good possibility know who Duke is.

:rolleyes:

So, bully, bully for the Duke yesterday, and may we enjoy his movies, today.

Hondo B)

Our country has a number of measurements that are taken into account as to suitability to serve in the armed forces. Many people did not serve. Some worked in the defense industries, some were farmers, some were police officers and firemen. Some served our country in different ways. Some went into the military and never carried a weapon. You might find it interesting to read about Desmond T. Doss, Medal of Honor Winner.

I personally feel that John Wayne served our country without being in the military. Remember, Bob Hope was never in the military. However he was given the award that meant the most to him, he was declared a veteran. Men like Bob Hope and John Wayne served a very special purpose in keeping our country entertained and keeping our minds on the tasks at hand.

Sorry Hondo I did indeed misread what you said. Regarding Johns contribution to the war I personally am quite satisfied with it he did a great job, my first opinion on this topic is still my overall opinion. I would also like to view the conclusions drawn up on this topic by the topic starter as I would find this very interesting.

B)

hi chisum,

i don't know if bob hope ever became a U.S. cit but he was born a pommy so he may not have been able to serve with the U.S. defence services.


cheers smokey

To all,

I think several have made excellent, well researched posts in regard to John Wayne's not having served actively in the military during WWII. Here is another point of view (similar on many points to what has already been shared heretofore), very well written and interesting.

We read this on the McCandles Texas group on Yahoo (another group of JW enthusiasts), and with permission from the author, "Sheriff" Austin R. Taylor, we bring it to you here:

(This was in response to a question about Duke's military experience)

Thanks for the great question. This is one that comes up every once
in a while and it is good to address it because not everyone knows
which is the true story and what was big studio hype.

Here is what I have:

The Duke and the Military.

There are many stories about why the Duke didn't enter the service
during World War II. I am not saying this one is any more true then
any of the others. But I feel he served his nation in his own way the
best he could. My grandfather was in the same boat as Wayne but his
"war necessary" work for Dodge and 4 kids kept him out of service
until late in the war. But he was just as proud of the work he did
for Dodge as he was storming the beach in the Philippines. I believe
the Duke and America were proud of what John Wayne did for his country!

When the Duke was a young man he wanted to attend Annapolis, the Navy
Military Academy, but was unable to win an appointment from his
state's Senator and when he was awarded a scholarship to USC he went
there to play football. The Duke was 34 when World War II started, and the
father of 4 children, so he was exempted from the draft. If he was to
volunteer, his medical examination showed that he would have needed to
seek a waver for his bad ankle, something that was not being granted
until much later in the war and never for combat troops. The Duke's
bosses at Republic Pictures also convinced him that he would be needed
on the home front to fight the battle of morale and he won that
battle. There were those (John Ford for one) who criticized the Duke
for not pushing for a medical waver, but consider this fact: When
Marine Corps recruiting was critically down following World War II the
Marine Corps Commandant personally asked John Wayne to make "Sands of
Iwo Jima" (1949). Recruitment went through the roof and he received a
personal thank you from the Commandant and a special citation of
merit. Later his support of the Korean and Vietnam soldiers (visiting
them in the field and in the hospital) is legendary. Most of
Hollywood's elite believed he ruined his career by supporting the
Vietnam War and making the "The Green Berets" (1968) but he never hid
his desire to support his nation and those who served it. He was even
at the homecoming for the Vietnam POWs and met the man whose name he
had on his POW bracelet. John Wayne was a man who understood what
being a soldier was all about. He understood love of country, and
devotion to duty and sacrifice. Sure maybe he never served but he
never brought shame to any uniform he put on. Thanks Duke!

If you would like a copy of this article you can find it in the File
section of McCandles under FAQ. Check it out, there is a lot of
information in the File section.

See you along the trail,

Art

Just to add my 2 cents worth. I grew up in the military, my family has a long history of military service, but I think John Wayne did more for his country by not going to war in WWII. He exemplifies what america is all about in his movies and his tributes to America. I can't think of a better hero, than John Wayne.
If we had more people like John Wayne the world would be a better place for all of us. Thanks for letting me expound. Looknodie

Thanks everyone. Especially Chester, and looknodie. I am very proud to know my favorite all-time actor and American is someone who is dedicated to this country first, and gave a damn for the common man. But I have to admit that I already knew this, but this reinforces my belief in this man of integrity. Keep on with the great work guys and gals.

Duke Head, Hondo B)

I forgot about the fact that John Wayne was flat footed, I believe that the majority of flat footed people are not permitted to join the army etc, if this is true there is no way John Wayne would have been allowed to fight in WWII. Does anyone else know anything regarding this

B)

hi robbie,

yes you are right if you have flat feet you CAN NOT get into the defence forces, this is tested when you go for your first medical before you enlist. hope this helps you out

cheers smokey

I have served 21 years in the infantry..4 in the marines and 17 in the Army......even though John Wayne never servered I cannot think of another American that has done more, and brought more pride to this country than
John Wayne..American

Brian
Tulalip Wa

BrianB,

I'd agree with you about that except one. I love Duke and what he has done for this country, but I have to say in my opinion that Bob Hope did more by showing support in the shows he did for the soldiers.

Duke even went on tour with Hope in WWII a couple of times (I think it was twice).

Hondo B)

hondo is bob hope a real american ? :unsure: as i know that he was born in england did he become a cit of america ? if he did in what year did he ? i know he did a lot for the troops which is something to be proud off.


cheers smokey :)

Smokey

Bob Hope is an American with just as much pride in America as John Wayne. Yes, Hope was born in England and still has ties to England (his parents lived and died there). I haven't read where Hope became a citizen of the US, but he did so much for the USA that to my knowledge he is considered a US citizen. Hope is also one of the most honored celebrities in the US, having more honorary degrees and presidentual medals awarded. He entertained troops in every war from WW 2 to the Gulf War. I'll try to find out more on this subject for you.

John Wayne toured with the USO during WW 2 several times, once with Hope that I found out about. Wayne also toured once I belive with the USO during Vietnam. If I can, I will get the dates for you. Wayne is criticized more about the military than anyone else because Wayne is more apt to stand up and tell anyone how great his country is or how much he loves it.

As a 21 year infantry vet. and a ww2 historian, those that wonder why John Wayne did not serve are wasting their time. John Wayne did more for this country than anyone I can think of.

Brian
Tulalip Wa

As a 25 year military vet, I wholeheartedly agree!

Chester

smokey,

Bob Hope came into this country at the age of three. I guess he was not a real American, if you mean a natural born citizen. But to tell you the truth, being natural born doesn't always mean, a good American. Us natural born Americans don't always appreciate what we have here, and the opportunities we have (off my soap-box).

He did become a U.S. Citizen (I forgot when, but it was either as a teenager or young adult). He, like Duke was too young for WWI, and too old for WWII. So, he did his part for the troops by doing his shows at the fronts for the USO. I will look to find out when he recieved his citizenship, but he did.

Both Duke and Hope did so much for the troops, and cared for America and the allies. I'm sorry that I don't have the info in front of me, but I do know that he is a citizen. Hope you can take my word for that.

Hondo B)

I feel John Wayne did far more for his country boosting moral thru his movies and also promoting war bonds, than if he had died on some far off field (however commendable that may be). ;)

Well i have it on his video the duke that it was his injury that kept him out of the war, I may sound like a one eyed John Wayne Fan but guys lets face it if the duke was involved in fighting the war it would have been over long before d day 6 june 1944.

hi hondo and baron,

thanks for the info about bob hope yes like you say it dosen't matter where you were born but how you feel in your heart for the country you adpot as your home. yes when you think of america and the uso you think of bob hope they tend to go hand in hand.

and i will take your word hondo was just interested to find out if he did take out citizenship.

cheers smokey

I'd like to direct you to a post I've placed in Off Topic Discussions, about Bob Hope. It's there, rather than here, because of its length.

Happy reading!

Chester

Throughout the years I've heard a few people make the statement that John Wayne did not serve. What ever his reasons for not serving, weather it be because of family status, medical reasons, or because his best intrest was how he could serve his country as an actor. This I feel is none of my buisness. John Wayne did more for this country by the selections that he made in his life. For that reason their are fans like us, and web sites like this.

Brian
Tulalip Wa

Hello :rolleyes:
This is from Field and Stream magazine

Who's the Real John Wayne?
by The Editors

A "Hero's" war record...How hot are your rocks?...The final word on our last page.

Duking It Out
Jim Harrison’s reference to John Wayne’s being a draft dodger (“Field Days,” February) is not only a slam against a fellow outdoorsman (see Warren Page’s article, “The Man’s Man” in the January 1965 Field & Stream) but is also completely untrue. Wayne tried to enlist in the Marine Corps as well as the Army but was turned down because of his age (39), and a bad knee that would have gotten any man, regardless of age, classified as IV-F.

Chris Upton
Littleton, Colo.



In 1941 Wayne was 34, placing him easily within draft age, and was never classified as IV-F; he was briefly classified as I-A toward the end of the war, but his studio objected, and he was reclassified as II-A, “deferred in the national interest,” and allowed to continue making movies. As far as Wayne’s attempting to enlist in the Marine Corps, the Army, or the Navy, we could find no evidence of this. It’s worth noting that during World War II, other major stars did serve, often with distinction. These include Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Henry Fonda, Clark Gable, Glenn Ford, James Stewart, and Tyrone Power. Gable is especially worthy of note because, despite being overage, he became an officer in the Army Air Corps and insisted on flying combat missions.
Jim Harrison sees it this way: “Coming from a family with two uncles who suffered horribly during World War II, I’ve always been repelled by those who pretended they served but didn’t. Early in the Vietnam War, when John Wayne visited the 9th Marine Regiment near Danang in Vietnam, a young Marine asked him how he thought it compared to World War II. Wayne scuffed the dirt and said, ‘It’s the same old s--t,’ which became a joke for everyone over there against fake soldiers.”—The Editors

Don't care for the Editors of Field and Stream :angry:

Monique ;)

Some interesting info I found. John Wayne had applied to the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis after graduation, to become a Naval Officer. He wanted to command a ship. (Maybe thats why he later purchase a retired WW 2 minesweeper, The Wild Goose?) Taking the exam, he came in 3rd out of 30. For what ever reason, he was disappointed with the relsults and did not enter the academy.

I'll find out more about this when I can and post it here.

Boy is Field and Stream out of touch with this story. Let's go back to an earlier post I made to Robbie, and give you the facts again. They didn't get the story straight, and we wonder why we don't believe the media.

They could at least got his age right!

Cheers, Hondo :angry:


Originally posted by Hondo Duke Lane@May 31 2003, 09:26 AM
Information listed above are the reasons for Duke not going to war. *Most of the reason was the future of his career. *I've carefully read information that everyone posted on this topic, and reseached from the biographers of Duke, and war years, and they give many different prespectives concerning their topics in their research. *Duke's biographers, Randy Roberts & James S. Olson gives me the best answer that I have accepted.


Listed are the obivious reasons for him not enlisted in WWII which is FACT:

1. He was 35 years old. *(Average age enlisting is 24/25 years old) *(Born May 26, 1907, at the time 35 years 6 months, 1 week, 4 days old)
2. He had four small children under 10 years of age. *(Ages 8, 6, 4, & 2, when U.S. was attacked at Pearl Harbor)
3. He had mariatal problems with his first wife which he was trying to work out. *(Divorced Josephine Saenz Wayne in 1944)
4. He had an injury from his college days (Not related to football) that would have 4F him (shoulder separation, and knee injury).
5. He just started to work in "A" movies. *(First moive, Stagecoach released February 15, 1939)
6. He was under contract with Republic Pictures that would not release him.

These are the facts listed above. *There is no arguement or debate. *He made his decision based on these issues, not just one reason, but many different and probably more. *It's not black and white, it's a pretty gray area to consider. *He didn't take his decision lightly.

He made during the war some great moive hits. *All listed are (Dates listed are American releases):

Lady for a Night (December 29, 1941)
Reap the Wild Wind (March 19, 1942)
The Spoilers (w/ Marlene Dietrich) (April 13, 1942)
In Old California (June 11, *1942)
Flying Tigers (September 23, 1942)
Reunion in France (w/ Joan Crawford) (December 2, 1942)
Pittsburg (w/ Marlene Dietrich) (December 7, 1942)
Lady Takes a Chance (w/ Jean Arthur) (August 19, 1943)
War of the Wildcats (w/ Martha Scott) (October 25, 1943)
The Fighting Seabees (w/ Susan Hayward) (January 19, 1944)
Tall in the Saddle (w/ Ella Raines) (September 29, 1944)
Flame of the Barbary Coast (April 18, 1945)
Back to Bataan (May 31, 1945)
Dakota (November 2, 1945)

These are the facts. *Duke did his part for the war effort helping with the USO. *He was very busy, more than the soldiers. *

As Northerner mentioned above, I guess you'll have to get the straight scoop from Duke himself. *I am sure that you can draw from your own conclusions yourself and accept what you want. *I posted the first comment from this post and continue to stand by it.

Again, I DO NOT accept him as a coward.

Have a good day, and Cheers

Hondo * B)

Hondo :rolleyes:

I agree with you 100% :rolleyes: This is just some of the things I have found that people are saying :angry: And for the Editors of Field and Stream magazine to write such B***S*** is totally stupid :angry: I hope they lost 99% of their readers :rolleyes: I personally have never read F&S magazine :D And I can promise you I never will :D :D :D

Monique ;)

First of all I have been following John Wayne for over 30 years and I have never heard of the dubious story Jim Harrison of Field and Stream is referring to. It seems pretty convienient that the story has Duke walking up to some unknown soldier making this remark. As a matter of fact in 1965 most people would have no idea whether Duke served or not so by that reasoning the story is clearly at best fiction but probably more likely a lie. After reading numerous books about Duke no one ever claimed they heard the man being dishonest regarding whether he served or not.
Draft Dodger has an ugly connotation about it. It seems that whenever I see this conversation it usually is simply someone who hates John Wayne and is simply looking for some way to knock the man.
Let me say to all the people out there who think because John Wayne was not in the military he somehow cannot be a patriot, get over it. The man was an actor and never claimed to be in the military. What kind of absurd reasoning is it to say that because you did not serve you cannot appear in military movies or if you did not serve you cannot have a say in the way the country is run. Also, if you think a few dozen middle age actors who did serve was what pushed us over the top in WWII you have another think coming. It was the young men in the military who laid down their lives, and John Wayne was always their biggest supporter. I know I'm not talking to the fans who post here, just blowing off steam to the Wayne Bashers who try to create something where there is nothing.

AMEN , BROTHER


Chester

From Ronald Reagan:
"When war broke out, John Wayne tried to enlist but was rejected because of an old football injury to his shoulder, his age (34), and his status as a married father of four. He flew to Washington to plead that he be allowed to join the Navy but was turned down. So he poured himself into the war effort by making inspirational war films - among them The Fighting Seabees, Back to Bataan and They Were Expendable. To those back home and others around the world he became a symbol of the determined American fighting man. Duke could not be kept from the front lines. In 1944 he spent three months touring forward positions in the Pacific theater. Appropriately, it was a wartime film, Sands of Iwo Jima which turned him into a superstar. Years after the war, when Emperor Hirohito of Japan visited the United States, he sought out John Wayne, paying tribute to the one who represented our nation's success in combat."

I am old enough to have watched a lot of John Wayne movies but not old enough to remember his politics or personal life affairs. I know that Ronald Reagan was. Did Reagan lie, misrepresent or make a mistake about these facts? I don't know for sure, nevertheless at this point I don't care. All this bitching about whether someone served or not is starting to get on my nerves. I'll bet a lot of military folks voted for Clinton, which basically closes the whole argument to me. I greatly admire those who have or are serving, but I think the most honorable are those who don't brag about it. The rest are self-serving. If you served, what honor do you bring by bragging....or complaining? I believe history shows that George Washington was very quiet about his accomplishments. Any of your servicemen here better than George? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Y'know what... somebody started this topic who isn't even on the board anymore!
He was honest enough to say he was a journalist, looking for some opinions on this one. Well, he came to the right place!
But he said THANKS AND BYE-BYE a long time ago, folks, and he never came back! Our quotes were probably worked into an article (Mr. Topicstarter, if I'm wrong about this, speak up) about how you could stampede a bunch of Wayne admirers with this one. Saddle up!

Just to clarify, the Duke was ineligible for the draft in WWII due to his age, marital status, and # of kids. If he had volunteered his services to the military, he certainly would not have been allowed to serve in a fighting unit. He probably would have been attached to the USO or would have been put to work making training films like Ronald Reagan. The research I have done indicates that Wayne felt he could best serve his country by making films, especially patriotic war movies. The side benefit to this decision is that he moved up in the Hollywood food chain while some of his comtemporaries were serving in the Allied forces.





David

Hello :rolleyes:

DBREWER :rolleyes: BPILATI :rolleyes:

I would like to welcome both of you to the board B)
I'm sure I will enjoy both of your postings :unsure:

Monique ;)

Originally posted by itdo@May 21 2003, 07:53 AM
...Clark Gable...his wife Ginger Rogers...894


Clark Gable's wife was Carole Lombard!

Originally posted by smokey@May 7 2003, 05:17 AM
hi jamesmarrison,

just to point out one fact errol flynn could not have joined the american defence force as he was an AUSTRALIAN* not american so don't use him in your paper and i don't believe he ever became a US citizen.
cheers* smokey
696

Just a quick note for everyone. You can actually be a foreign citizen and enlist and serve in our military. I serve with many people from other countries. In fact, it leads to citizenship in a rather quick way. I believe the President presided over a citizenship ceremony on July 4th that was for foreign soldiers (We don't consider them foreign, they are all our brothers and sisters in arms) that serve in our military. On the other note, may I add that the people on this site never cease to amaze me. Unfortunately, when I read the first post, I became rather angry. Everyone on here posted eloquently with respect and honor to Duke. I myself think he did more for America and her troops staying at home rather than going to war. While there are some exceptions, a lot of the actors who enlisted (usually as officers) were put in a propaganda role themselves. And might I add that more than a few of them were financially secure, unlike Duke.
Thanks
Bo

"Also, if you think a few dozen middle age actors who did serve was what pushed us over the top in WWII you have another think coming. It was the young men in the military who laid down their lives, and John Wayne was always their biggest supporter"

Winston, I will start by welcoming you to the site as I am pretty new here myself. I would agree that maybe the middle-aged actors didn't push us over the top, but we needed everyone we had, just as we do today. And even though I'm in what is considered the "bastard branch Coast Guard", I did do a one year tour in the Middle East landside and saw many of the middle-aged men and women who are serving in our hard working and proud reserve units. They come back in body bags as well as the young ones.
Bo