This list could go on forever. Everyone has a fave, but let's keep it to a couple a piece, huh?

Mine?

"In Harm's Way"- I thought Wayne played his part very well. Good to see him with Kirk Douglas and Patricia Neal.

"Shepherd of the Hills"-A great pseudo-western. I love Harry Carey's performance in this. He is so good. ( his character and the performance)

The John Wayne-Marlene Dietrich movies (The Spoilers, Seven Sinners, and Pittsburgh) -Overlooking the blackface scene in "The Spoilers", I love these movies. I am eagerly awaiting their release on DVD. Wayne had great chemistry with Dietrich, I thought. I also liked seeing him up against Randolph Scott in two of these.

I really like "Trouble Alone the Way" co-starring with Donna Reed, and Charles Coburn. The child star was Sherry Jackson. I like the story line, the comedy, the sports concept, and the ending. What a great movie, which I listed in my top 20.

I also liked "Hondo". You might say that it was disappointing because of the earlier release of "Shane" (almost the same story). Hondo did something to get people to go and see this movie. They made it into 3D, and the catch was a modern western movie for all times. The critics were not very complementary of this movie, but I truely liked it and saw a side of Duke that gave me respect for his craft. Co-stars were Geraldine Page, James Arness (Gunsmoke's Matt Dillon), Michael Pate, Ward Bond, & Paul Fix.

Hondo Duke Lane :D

hi dustinb,

i have to go with hondo in picking trouble alone the way as one of the best other than the westerns and war movies, i liked it because it showed him having to cope with his feelings about the little girl and exwife and his struggle as a single parent which was ahead of its time.

cheers smokey

I agree with The Shepherd Of The Hills being way underated. It is one of my favorites. Can't watch it enough. I also love Angel and the Badman. It never seems to come up in anyones favorites, but it is in my list. I think The Conqueror gets way to bad a rap. I admire the job Duke did to pull of Ghangis Kahn. Wasn't an easy job. dukefan1

This list could go on a bit but I will try to keep it brief.

The Cowboys an excellent quality movie great acting from the Duke as well as a fine storyline.

The Three Godfathers - Again this is a good quality movie.

Brannigan - I dont understand why this movie is contantly slated great action, Dukes looks well and the film is slick with a good storyline.

The Searchers - Still not fully recogniced as the greatest film ever made. An unrivaled movie of sheer scope brilliant. Somtimes given the degrogatory caption of being one of the greatest westerns ever made. It is very complex, beautiful, historic, contemporary, relevant, unmissabe. Stephen Spielbery once said "its the greatest movie about tollerance ever made" hes right although he should have left the words "about tollerance" out of his statement.

Its simply the best words seem inadequate when describing this movies greatness.

Finally regarding this movie why on so many lists of the top 100 movies ever made does this movie finish 96th are these polls rigged.

B)

Regarding "The Searchers", I agree, it is a great movie on many levels. First, the picture. I am constantly amazed by the color and picture clarity for a movie that is almost 50 years old. Also, I think it was Martin Scorsese that said "The Searchers" is shot like a silent film, in that the story can be followed even without the dialogue. If you watch the movie just by watching the way the scenes are set up and by the expressions on the actors faces it conveys the story brilliantly. This is not to say the dialogue is throw away, but it dovetails nicely with the visual to complete the whole package.

Tall in the Saddle, and Angel and the Bad Man. Two very under-rated movies. In the first, 'Rocklin' is pretty much the toughest guy ever. And the second gives the perfect contrast between recklessness and old world values. How you want to be and how you know you should be.

hi all,

my son has had his say on his fav duke movie and low and behold it is angle and the bad man he has watched it so much i am going to have to replace it before it wears out

cheers smokey

Hey Smokie, the boy has great taste!
My little girl is 2 1/2. She likes the Duke too.

Hello Norhtener

In Dances with Wolves we are subjected to a one-sided story stating that the whites are evil and the Sioux perfect this is nonsense. In the Searchers the Native Americans are humans and the whites are humans they are both equals. We see attrocities carried out against the native, we see their great culture, we see their great tactics, their innocense and above all their humanity. Could you please explain to me how they were sterotyped I am a litte confused and why do you feel they are treated better in DWW. What are other peoples views on this, Iwould be quite interested in the Shootisters view as well as she mentioend this in an earlier message

B)

Robbie, I feel that Dances with Wolves was pretty close to how it was in the western advances by the "white man". We were all taught in school and movies of old that the indians were savages and heathens. We were taught how Custer and his brave men were slaughtered by a band of savages (not that Custer led a charge into the village, not attacked by that village). There were attrocities commited by both sides. We had years of seeing movies of how the west was conquered, DWW just showed the other side and their story. If you want to read an excellent book on the indian's side of how the west was "lost", pick up a copy of Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee. It is an excellent read and will shock you how they were lied to and treated by the government and the troops. As for The Searchers, I think the Indians were not shown in a horrible light and were shown as equals. Just my view. dukefan1

Robbie,

I say they were stereotyped only because they were the same in the Searchers as they were in almost every other western that had been made up to that point.

Dukefan1 is right - the Injuns were equals in The Searches but in a very different way. Scar was Ethans equal, his antagonist. When Ethan meets Scar face to face, it's like looking into a mirror (therefore, the name Scar fits). Scar tells Ethan in his tent that the white man has killed all his sons (therefore, the white man began the circle of hate), and that for each son he takes many -- he doesn't have a word for scalp, so the Mexican has to add it.
It has been written many times and by notable film historians that The Searches is really about the vanishing American, and Ford offered a very dark view about how the US cavalry hunted down the red man. Dances With Wolves is another ballgame, that's more like Broken Arrow. So in my opinion the indians in Searches certainly weren't shown as peacelovin, but Ford didn't present the usual stereoptypes either. By the way, Alan LeMays novel "The Searches" is one of the great westerns, everybody who wants to dig deeper into this should try to catch it sometimes.

Dances with Wolves was inspired by the Searchers, although I personally do not like the movie I recognise that it is an important contribution as we learn about the qualities of the Native Americans. The problem the movie has is the all too simplistic good guys and bad guys, the white are blood thirsty while the Natives are the good guys.

In the Searchers there is none of this silly simplicity. We learn about the horrors that were inflicted on the Natives, for the first time we learn they have a culture, they are an oppressed people and much more. We also learn that the whites are also victims, people who seek a home and the most important part of the story we learn that there is no real hate between the two sides except for outsides Ethan and Scar who were victims of the war.
B)

I would go with Shepard of the Hills as the most underrated.

Brian
Tulalip Wa

One movie that I usually don't see on the favorites list for people is Without reservations. I really liked this film. I thought it was funny and romantic, there's pretty good screen chemistry between the Duke and Colbert. It's a pretty solid script and story, but it just seems to go unnoticed.

After reading these postings on the most underrated John Wayne movie. I have to agree with Robbie that The Searchers is the most underrated movie. For all the fans that know this is a True John Wayne/John Ford classic why is it always rated just under 100 in the top 100 movies of all times?
I just don't get it.

Monique :angry:

I have always been fond of Dark Command...Wayne is just as good with Claire Trevor as Stagecoach, and Walter Pigeon is a colorful antagonist.

GSP

I also think that Rio Grande doesn't get enough press. I think this is just a wonderful film. Great music throughout, and Ben Johnson and Harry Carey Jr. are terrific. From what I understand it was a low budget film, and yet John Ford crafted it into a masterpiece....in my opinion.

GSP

"The Searchers" is the best western ever :D

followed by "Stagecoach", "Hondo," and "Rio Bravo" :D

But as the most underrated I would say "Angel and the Badman" or "Shepard in the Hills" :unsure:

Monique ;)

Yo Monique

I agree with you regarding the Searchers being around number 100 in the lists of 100 greatest movies ever made. The reason I feel for this is because mos of these polls are contrived including the IMDB, everbody knows the Searchers should be on the list, not everyone understands the movie and for this reason is is usually just input near the bottom of this list. So the reason for it performing poorly is both being the victim of being misuderstood and becuase of poll fixing.

B)

An old topic brought to the top again. Well the reason for this is that I saw "The Dark Command" the other day, and I have to agree with GSP in that this is a great movie. I may be a simpleton but I liked this movie a lot without analyzing it in any way. The reason I like it so much is because it just tells a really good story.

I had the same feeling when watching "The Big Traill". I knew more about this one before watching it but the feeling I had after seeing it was not it was a good film for a movie that old or anything like that. It was just a very good movie. Good story and the atmosphere in the wagon train was good.

A third movie I liked a lot that not very many people seem to be too obsessed about is "Back to Baataan". Same here. There is a pretty good story. Watching some of his other war films there seemed to be a little to much action and not enough story. I still have a few war films to go though so I'm still hoping for even better ones.

Last one on my list of underrated films is "Wings of Eagles". We had a small discussion about this one. This made me think through the whole movie and I suddenly realized that I appreciated this film much more than I was aware of straight after seeing it the first time. It starts out as one of the funniest John Wayne movies and then changes to become a much deeper and bit of a tragic story. Funnily enough this movie is the one I end up thinking about that no one could have played John Wayne's role and made the same impression on me.

Regards
Popol Vuh

Hi Popol Vuh

Wings of Eagles is quite a good film as it is based on the life of Spig Wead and it sort of cuts between fact and fiction. The John Dodge character played by Ward Bond is John Ford and Spig Wead wrote the screenplay for one of John Wayne's films and at 2315 at night with no reference books handy, for the life of me I can't remember which one.

If you can get hold of a copy of The Trail Beyond dated 2003 Tim Lilley has reprinted an article on the making of Back To Bataan and the hardships that the director Edward Dmytryk and the screen writer put John Wayne through in the making of the picture.

At the end of the picture Wayne became convinced that the director had communist sympathies and he eventually served a term in prison for contempt of the HUAC.

I'll look it up tomorrow and put names and dates to the vagaries I have mentioned tonight.

Regards

Arthur

Hi

In the cold light of day and a few good books it all becomes very easy.

The Film that Spig Wead wrote the screenplay for was They Were Expendable.

And the Trail Beyond article is in Edition 2002 and not 2003 as I said, (How Time Flies) and it is entitled The Duke And Me by Ben Barzman.

It is a very interesting article.


Regards

Arthur

Hi Again

When looking at fond movies I have to admit that some of his early movies are very good, Two of my favourites are non westerns and both made in the 1940s one made at the beginning of the decade and one at the end. They are Reap the Wild Wind (1942)and The Wake of the Red Witch (1949), strangely enough in both pictures John Wayne gets killed in a diving accident.

Reap the Wild Wind has a strange history in as much that in the 1930s when Ford had temporary abandoned John Wayne to his own devices, he approached Cecil B deMille asking to play the roll of the scout in De Mille's forthcoming epic the Plainsman. At the interview DeMille reminded Duke that he had been in the Big Trail, treated him very off handed. and gave the part to Gary Cooper. Duke never forgot the snub and when DeMille later asked him to play the second lead in Northwest Mounted Police he refused.

Later the two got together for Reap the Wild Wind and both shared a mutal respect but it was the only time Wayne worked for the director.

For the climatic scene where Ray Milland and John Wayne get to fight the giant squid in his book Whatever Happened To Hollywood screenwriter Jessie Lasky jnr relates how there was no ending for the picture and de Mille realising this and in a foul mood asked them how the picture was going to end. In a blind panic Lasky invented the giant squid and explained completely off the cuff the ending, apparently both satisfying and appeasing the director.

One additional little known fact is that during the making of the picture, every day the star of the film Ray Milland had his hair made into tight curls. Later he blamed this for making him go prematurely bald and thus ending his leading man image.

Regards


Arthur

Now this topic has started to become very interesting.

I have read quite a few reviews on Wake of the Red Witch but I have yet to see it and every review ranks it quite highly is it really that good of a movie, it sounds very interesting and I believe Dukes character is not as clean cut as he might have been.

:agent:

:cowboy: One John Wayne movie that is way underrated has to be: "Allegheny Uprising."

I never see or hear anyhting about it yet, it is one of his best films of the 1930's and i'd rate it just behind Stagecoach.

This film has him (Jim Smith) in Colonia times (Pre Revolutionary War) as a man who was a scout working for the British Army.

When the movie first starts, it shows the British And French exchanging a few POW's and John Wayne (Jim Smith) gets his first exposure to the snobbish British Captain played by George Sanders. He and "The Professor" get released after another scout working for the British recognises them both as friends and lets out that they have been missing for sometime--which corresponds with their story.

Anyway, as the movie goes on, they find out about a businessman who is illeagally selling contraband goods to the Indians. They have a few run-ins with this guy throuought the movie.

The Indians make a raid and take several children as hostage and John Wayne (Jim Smith) and a group of men go and re-capture the children.

The businessman (mentioned earlier) apparently has a deal with the British to sell and also store goods in British Forts--only the goods that are going to be stored there are not legal items--such as Whiskey and some guns.

Jim Smith and his boys also have numerous run-ins with the snobbish British Captain (George Sanders) and eventually end up in jail. They are freed later on and Jim Smith and his boys gather proof against George Sanders and that businessman, and then procede to set things right.

I don't want to give too much away but, this really is a great film.

Best regards-TRK.

Originally posted by arthurarnell@Jan 11 2005, 01:24 AM

Hi Popol Vuh

Wings of Eagles is quite a good film as it is based on the life of Spig Wead and it sort of cuts between fact and fiction. The John Dodge character played by Ward Bond is John Ford and Spig Wead wrote the screenplay for one of John Wayne's films and at 2315 at night with no reference books handy, for the life of me I can't remember which one.


13626



Thanks for the info Arthur.

One question I have asked myself about "The Wings of Eagles" is just how much of it is true. Especially the part where he wrecks the airplane. I really wondered if anyone could do anything remotely like that and still continue his career in the navy. Anyone have any info on this? Well it is my favorite scene anyway.

TRK: I like the "Allegheny Uprising" too. I guess just about every film John Wayne was in will be mentioned here if everyone starts listing up their favorites.

Regards
Popol Vuh

Hi Popol Vuh:
as the film's narration points out in the very beginning: Nobody will ever forget the day... John Ford, in an interview with Bogdanovich in 1963, said: The admiral's tea party, that really happened. As for the brawl with the cake, Ford said he was there himself: "I ducked it". Scenes which were more true to real life, showing Mrs. Wead's problems with alcohol, were cut due to the Spig children who had some sort of control over the final result.

Hi,

When the film was being shot the crew lived on an aircraft carrier and apparently the film crews insisted on eating in the officers mess. On the first day Ford was missing stating afterwards that he was suffering from sea sickness. The second and third day followed the same pattern with Ford not turning up for his meals.

Later it transpired that with Ford's knowledge of the Navy he was eating his meals in the ordinary sailors mess as the food was better than that served in the officers mess.

Regards

Arthur

Hi Robbie

The Wake of the Red Witch is a very good film (in my opinion) made in 1949 and directed by Edward Sedgwick it is another picture that shows Wayne'sabilities as an actor , and his Captain Ralls follows on from Thomas Dunson and precedes Ethan Edwards and to a lesser degree Nathan Brittles as dark or authorative figures. Also it is a good picture and it had nothing to do with John Ford.

I suppose it shows Wayne not so much as a villain but rather more as an opportunist working to his own advantage.

it is a picture that is narrated by Gig Young and the major part of it is covered by two flashbacks. It opens with John Wayne standing on the quarterdeck of he Red Witch watching two men knocking hell out of each other and goes on to show the feud between him and Luther Adler as the owner of Batjac.

After the Red Witch is sunk, the trio of Gig Young, Paul Fix and John Wayne are lured to a Pacific Island by a fake pearl map and find themselvs trapped by Luther Adler. It is on the island that the story unfolds and Gig Young learns the truth about Ralls, Sindneye and the beautiful Angelique (Gail Russell).

Regards

Arthur

My vote here goes to A Lady Takes a Chance. I love Duke in a romantic comedy - the man could be very funny. I agree with previous people who suggested Without Reservations, The Three Godfathers, and, to a lesser extent, The Wake of the Red Witch.

Arther

Thanks for that description, it sounds very much like a movie that I will enjoy.

Regarding underrated movies of the Dukes I would add the Cowboys to the list. This is a high quality movie with great acting from the Duke, I dont think hew should have got killed in the movie but this is my only problem with it.

:agent:

Robbie, I think you're gonna like Wake of the Red Witch - it's a preview to ETHAN :D !

Matter of fact, I've seen it just recently and noticed something I haven't before, but I'll start a new topic for that.

As for the topic of "underrated": I don't think The Cowboys classifies. It's been regarded as one of the best westerns of the Seventies for a long time - if not in the genre itself, and it's been hailed as one of the last "classic" westerns. In my opinion it certainly it towers above other achievements of Wayne's in that decade.

Originally posted by itdo@Jan 14 2005, 06:09 AM
In my opinion it certainly it towers above other achievements of Wayne's in that decade.

While "The Cowboys" was certainly one of Duke's better efforts (of any decade), I wouldn't go go far as to say it "towers" over "The Shootist", "Brannigan" or "Big Jake", all of which were 70's releases.

Well, I said it towers above OTHER achievements - The Cowboys certainly outranks the McLaglen films and the urban film efforts. While The Shootist is the outstanding western of the decade, together with Josey Wales, The Cowboys comes in close behind (I'm not looking at pure entertainment values here). That's if you want to go with the opinions in most books on the genre.

Originally posted by itdo@Jan 14 2005, 09:32 AM
Well, I said it towers above OTHER achievements

Please clarify yourself, Roland. Since the Duke was renowned primarily as a film star, what achievements of his could you be talking about OTHER than films?

Hi Roland

You must have picked up on the fact that I was quite impressed with Dukes performance as Ethan, I have heard an awful lot about WOTRW and most of it is very positive so its a movie I'm looking forward to watching.

Stumpy I think Roland was referring to the fact that the Cowboys towers over lesser Duke efforts such as Cahill and the Undefeated. I am actually interested in why Duke made so many movies with Mclaglen as I am not a big fan of his work and his movies with Duke are quite poor with the exception of Mclintock and to a lesser extent Chisum.

With regards to the Cowboys I hadnt realised that it was thought of so highly but I'm very glad it is, I will alter my option now and opt for Brannigan its not the best movie ever made but is sure is entertainment and it has been harshly reviewed too often.

:agent:

The couple of under rated movies I like are:

Tycoon
Trouble Along The Way
Shepard of the Hills
War of the Wildcats
Three Faces West
Angel and the Badman

to name a few.

Though I've seen it mentioned a couple of times on this board, it seems to me that "They Were Expendable" is far down on the list of John Wayne movies well regarded. At least, it is rarely mentioned on anyone's top 25, much less top 10 best liked John Wayne movies. Good WWII story.

Regards - Jay :)

Originally posted by Jay J. Foraker@Jan 17 2005, 05:13 PM
Though I've seen it mentioned a couple of times on this board, it seems to me that "They Were Expendable" is far down on the list of John Wayne movies well regarded.* At least, it is rarely mentioned on anyone's top 25, much less top 10 best liked John Wayne movies.* Good WWII story.

Regards -* Jay* * * :)
13763


Since we're usually talking about Westerns, I've never mentioned that "They Were Expendable" and "The Quiet Man" rank numbers one and two in my list of non-Western Wayne movies.

Originally posted by Stumpy @ Jan 17 2005@ 02:36 PM

Since we're usually talking about Westerns, I've never mentioned that "They Were Expendable" and "The Quiet Man" rank numbers one and two in my list of non-Western Wayne movies.
13764



Stumpy, I think we've been here before, but I for one "Ditto" your thoughts on these two movies.

Chester :newyear:

Originally posted by Robbie@Jan 14 2005, 06:50 PM
Brannigan its not the best movie ever made but is sure is entertainment and it has been harshly reviewed too often.
:agent:
13716

This one is only from a few months back, but somehow I missed the reference to "Brannigan." This movie is actually one of my favorites from JW's last decade - No, its not one that is soul-searching and tries to make a statement, but rather a movie designed for pure entertainment - on that level, it succeeds quite well.
Cheers - Jay :D

Originally posted by baron von Rassilon@Jan 17 2005, 02:38 AM
The couple of under rated movies I like are:

Tycoon
Trouble Along The Way
Shepard of the Hills
War of the Wildcats
Three Faces West
Angel and the Badman

to name a few.


Yup....I'd agree with all those choices, and add in two others:

Jet Pilot
The Conqueror

Most of his movies like "The Searchers", etc. are pretty well known.

A film which I really enjoyed yet a lot of people have not heard of was "3 Godfathers". John Ford did a great job on it. I've been wanting to see "Shepherd of the Hills" but it's a little hard to find. Anybody know if it's coming to DVD anytime soon?

This is my first post, by the way. Nice website!

:cowboy: Welcome to the site Duke T.

Also, 3 Godfathers is one of my favorite John Wayne movies as well.

Duke Toshiro,

WELCOME to the John Wayne Message Board! We're glad to have you join us, and hope you decide to stick around.

We have enjoyed both movies you mentioned. Our copy of Three Godfathers is a Brazilian edition, which we have to change to the Engish when we watch it :o . We have Shepherd of the Hills on VHS, and I think we got it used either from eBay or Amazon. It's been so long - don't remember anymore . . . but we also enjoyed that one as well.

Chester :newyear: and the Mrs. :angel1:

Howdy!
Although you don't see it mentioned very often, I think The Long Voyage Home is an excellent film and very under rated. I think it shows that Duke wasn't just limited to westerns and war films. I have read that this was one of his favorite films, and after watching it several times, I can see why. The characterizations and various plot lines revolving around the different characters are very interesting, and sparsely lighted sets make for a very film noir type atmosphere. If you haven't seen it, I heartily recommend it. I also like Sea Chase, and I think it too has been very under rated.
Colorado Bob

"The Long Voyage Home" is one of my favorites as well. Pretty much anything John Ford has done I really like. Have you seen "The Informer" with Victor McLaglen? That's another one of my favorites.

"The Sea Chase" was great.

I love El Dorado. To me that is a seriously underrated John Wayne movie. It's got a great cast and is well written and directed - and it's a hell of a lot of fun to watch!

Others that I would consider underrated would be:

The Fighting Seabees
Wake of the Red Witch
Angel and the Badman

I would consider all of those to be "must have" movies for any JW fan. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it!

My favorite Duke film that I think is underrated is "The Barbarian and the Geisha". I like it because he plays against type. Not only that but I fell in love with the Japanese people when I was in the military and visited Japan.

I might have mentioned it before on this topic, but Trouble Along The Way is very underratted movie, and one that should be viewed by all. It is in my opinion a very down to earth movie with Duke as a bum that is bringing up a daughter, and is forced to make changes if he wants to keep his daughter. He becomes a college coach with a catholic college who is very big financial trouble who is looking for a way out, and hires Duke as their football coach.

There is more to the movie, and it is classic with Donna Reed, Charles Coburn, and Sherry Jackson co staring with Duke, and Chuck Connors makes an appearance in the movie. A big plus who likes Duke in comedys with drama in it.

Cheers B)

Here's another vote for Trouble Along the Way from 1953 and The Sea Chase from 1955 as two of John Wayne's films that are seldom mentioned amongst his best yet ones I very much enjoy. The second of these comes out on DVD next week.

I also very much like The Long Voyage Home from 1940. I enjoy seeing John Wayne's talents outside the war and western genres as well.

Roger

Have you noticed, no one mentions The War Wagon,it was a great team of The Duke, and Kirk Douglas Howard Keel, Robert Walker. The film was exciting, it was funny, the action was good, the music, by Dimitri Tiomkin, was brilliant. There's one that got away, unnoticed.

After reading all these posts one that keeps coming to mind for me is Operation Pacific. I enjoy this movie allot and with Ward Bond and Patricia Neal in it, the Duke has a great ensemble to work with.

I just saw Horse Soldiers this weekend. It's a must see for any fan of Duke or Ford.

Another one that comes to mind is Tall in the Saddle (1944). You don't hear much about it, although it did just come out on DVD this week (in that John Wayne Legendary Heroes Collection). and it is also available separately at Deep Discount DVD for $9.00 (with free shipping) :rolleyes: .

The interaction between John Wayne and Gabby Hayes is some of the best you'll find, and it is a twist to see Ward Bond in the role of a bad guy.

We'd also like to take this opportunity to welcome you, New England Wayne Fan, to the John Wayne Message Board! Glad to see that you "got your feet wet" so to speak with your first post, and we look forward to hearing from you again!

Chester :newyear: and the Mrs. :angel1: