Who do you think was John Waynes worst Co-star and maybe give a reason. My nomination is going to be controversial as he seems to be quite popular on this messageboard. His name is Chill Wills (At least I think thats his name) he was in the Alamo and when his drink get blown up he moans and says "awe that aint no fair way to fight a war". I feel that this mans input into the Alamo dilutes the seriousness of the story, he is quite annoying and makes me cringe and he is far from authentic and is a significant reason as to why the Alamo failed at the box office. However I did like him in Mclintock he was much better in it.

B)

I think that my choice for this one would have to be Kim Darby from True Grit. Part of the reason that she gets on my nerves is the character's fault. Some of the dialogue in the movie between her and Glen Campbell is really annoying. I think the other part would be some of the stories that I have read about behind the camera while they were shooting the movie.Her and the Duke didn't get along very well on the set.

Hey, all! Mrs. Chester here . . .

Chester didn't have particularly strong feelings on this topic, but I had a few right off the top of my head -

Katherine Ross in Hellfighters was very annoying to me; what a whiny baby she was, and incredibly selfish and immature and . . . it's like she didn't have a clue how dangerous their work was.

In Rio Bravo, the character played by Angie Dickinson made me crazy! Why did she have to beat around the bush all the time? Why couldn't she just come out and say what was on her mind, instead of hemming and hawing all over the place. I just want to slap her every time we watch that movie. <_<

My husband thinks Kim Darby needed a real good spanking, you know, the Wayne maneuver, not that easy goin' Texan style. :rolleyes:

Mrs. Chester

I'd have to agree with Duke. Vera Hruba Ralston was a terrible actress. I can't stand watching her on the screen with Duke. As for Kim Darby, while she was a brat and disrespectable to Duke while making the picture, she pulled off the part of Mattie Ross just as Charles Portis wrote the character in his book. She nailed it, attitude and demeanor. I give her credit. dukefan1

Well, I'm not going after the women with this post.

I will say that Bud Elder played by Michael Anderson, Jr. in "The Sons of Katie Elder" was very annoying to me, he over played the part, and over dramatized his character.

Chris Mitchum, in "Rio Lobo". Just not a very good job in that movie, but he did improve much better in "Big Jake". Just didn't enjoy his acting. Didn't seem to know what he was doing in "Rio Lobo".


:unsure:

Funny Robbie about your comment of Chill Wills. He was up for an Acamedy Award for Best Supporting Actor in "The Alamo." He didn't get the award, and I didn't much of his performance in that movie. The award went to Peter Ustinov in Spartacus.

Cheers, Hondo B)

I think the worst was Glen Campbell in True Grit . He sounded like he was reading directly off cue cards.

Hondo,

Thanks for mentioning Bud Elder - I had forgotten about him, and I couldn't agree with you more.

My wife says she's not against women, but the most annoying characters in most of Duke's movies, that she can think of, just happen to be women. She did agree with you on Bud Elder as well, however.

Chester

Ditto's about the women. I was mentioning the posts above with most of responses were about the bad players that were women. I just wanted to add some men to this club of terrible acting. By the way, I really like Sons of Katie Elder, but Bud Elder was very bad. I kinda wish they killed him off instead of the Earl Holliman character. That would have made the film much better.

Hondo :)

Hi All,

I am in total agreement with Kim Darby, I think that is why I would rather choose another movie to watch then True Grit. Just because I know she was the way she was to Duke! By the way who is Vera Hruba Ralston, and which movie was she in with JW?

As far as men I have to agree with Glen Campbell, in my opinion he wasn't very good.

I did however, like Christopher Mitchem and John Wayne together, it was really sad that they didn't get to be in more movies together. I only know that it was because of differences in politics. I do agree, however, that he did improve with age in acting!

Stacy

Stacy,

Vera Hruba Ralston was in Dakota & The Fighting Kentuckian. Don't know much about her at all.

Hondo B)

With a little more thinking, I realized that one of the most despicable (thus, really pathetic) characters in any John Wayne movie is the one played by Bruce Dern in The Cowboys, the low life, creepy scuz-ball who kills the John Wayne character by shooting him in the back. :angry: :angry: :angry: It is probably one of the least watched JW movies we own for that reason.

Chester

I have to disagree with Bruce Dern in the Cowboys. I thought we were talking about the acting not the character. I thought he was a great bad guy and read that it hurt his career for a while being so nasty to JW. I still love to see JW's interaction with those kids in that movie he was wonderful :D .

Right! Dern's acting was great (and exactly according to screenplay and very much the incarnation of bad guy "Long Hair" from the novel by William Jennings). I've read that John Wayne foresaw what was coming for Dern when he told him: "Dern, everywhere you go from here on, you'll be hated." The Cowboys was a commercial success in its days, in financial terms one of JW's best at the Box-Office.

(By the way, for all who still hate Dern because he shot down JW in The Cowboys: look at The War Wagon, there it is the other way around!)

I don't know that the subject of the thread was specifically character or acting (the title only says "Most annoying or pathetic"), but I will readily admit that Bruce Dern's acting was superb, as I absolutely despise his character, and as usual, John Wayne was right ("Dern, everywhere you go from here on, you'll be hated." :angry: ).

'Nuf said.

Chester

Firat all, my choice is Kim Darby's character, Mattie Ross & Glenn Cambell's character, Sgt. LaBoef. Both speak their parts like they are reading them from cue cards! Mattie Ross is most annoying because she always threatens everyone with "my lawer, J. Noble Daggett!". Had this been the real west, someone would have pulled his gun and shot her. Where is Liberty Vanlance when you need him! At least Darby's acting career died a merciful death instead.

Hondo!

As for Vera Ralston (real name Vera Helena Hruba ), well, she wasn't an actress at all. She started out as an Olympic Ice skater in the 1936 games. She escaped her country of Czechoslavokia, to get away form World War 2. Republic found her and put her in two pictures, Ice Capades (1941) and Ice Capades Revue (1942). After this, Repulbic Pictures President Yates became infatuated with her and tried to make her a leading lady. There was two minor problems with this, one, she could not act, two, she had a very thick Czech accent. She was never to over come these setbacks.

Yates renamed her last name to Ralston (he got it from a popular breakfast cereal) and then signed her to a "long term contract". She then was made a leading lady in several pictures. Unfortunatly, the only way the theater would play her movies was under threat from Republic studios. If the theaters refused play her movies, Republic wouldn't send any of their films at all.

She has been given credit for helping Republic Picture fold up. After the company was no more, she married the former company president Yates. She stayed with him until his death.

John Wayne after his picture with her, The Fighting Kentuckian, was reportedly to have threatened to leave Replublic Pictures permanently, if he ever had to be in another movie with her.

To clear up any confusion my questions is regarding any character in a John Wayne movie who is uneeded and or whos acting is poor. I cant beleive Bud Elder has been nominated I think that he is terrific and so is Kim Darby in True Grit, Glen Campbell isnt all that bad either. During the filming of True Grit Kim Darby was very ill this is why she was bad tempererd towards the Duke and I feel her acting in the movie is strong and authentic.

I do agree however with the nomination of Chris Mitchum he is awful in both Big Jake and Rio Lobo. I would also nominate Patrick Wayne he is poor in the searchers, big jake. Green Berets and the Alamo and pretty weak in Mclintock however hes ok in the comancheroes.

Your quite correct hondo about Wills being nominated for an oscar ;) how this ever came to pass I will never know if I had to nominate someone for an oscar in the Alamo it would be the person who played Travis his performance was excellent.


B)

Regarding Bruce Dern, what was the relationship between him and the Duke like away from the camera are there any interesting stories?. :) I know that Dern had death threats made against him for shooting the Duke but I didnt realise it ruined his career, whoever stated this on this messageboard is quite correct Dern should have been a big star but wasnt good old Duke :P

B)

Now that were talking about people who shot the Duke what ever happened to the coward who shot him in the shootist did his career just die with JB Books?.

B)

As for Bruce Dern, I've watched a late night talk show with him (it was the Johnny Carson Show) and he did mentioned the film The Cowboys. It was about 3 years later after the movie was made. Dern said he had the reputation of being one of the few people who killed John Wayne. He laugh and said his mom wasn't thrilled with him for killing Wayne.
As for his career, Bruce Dern has made lots of movies afterwards. It didn't kill his career at all. Nor has it affected his daughter, Laura Dern's ( Jurassic Park), career either.

The Shootist The guys who shot Wayne, well, it didn't kill their career either. Richard Boone ( played Mike Sweeney )has had a long career in TV and movies until his death in January 1981. Remember his TV show, Hec Ramsey? Also remember Boone was killed by Wayne in Big Jake.

Hugh O'Brian ( played Jack Pulford ) also had a long career in TV and movies. His long series TV show was "The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp". He is still currently acting and making an updated Wyatt Earp movie.

The last guy is Bill McKinney ( played Jay Cobb ). His career is also very much alive and well. You can see him in The Green Mile as the character Jack Van Hay. He is in a new movie out this year called Hellborn.

It's only a myth that those who killed John Wayne in his pictures, that their careers died. Those who did appear with Wayne and their careers died, was of their own doings and not Waynes.

Wow, baron, thanks for all that, and you, too, itdo (I'll have to check out The War Wagon)!

Perhaps I've been a little hard on that long-haired, hippy, Commie b******d. (Moderators, please don't report me ;) )

Just kidding!

I do appreciate your input, and the time amassing all that information.

Cheers!

Chester

Thanks, Baron, that is some really good trivia :) . I had never heard that about Vera Ralston.

The bartender from the Shootist was billed under an alias, so as not to cause harm to his career, like Dern suffered.
He went on to make other pictures under his rightful name.
Any thing else on him is lost in my sea of Duke info. :unsure:

Rick

Baron

Dern should have been a massive star and although he may have made many movies after the cowboys they were hardly classics or box office smashes and he had faded away completely by the time he made that comedy (the name escapes me) with Tom Hanks.

Regarding the character you mentioned in the Shootist none of them killed the Duke although your correct regarding the information you supplied about each.

Reasr that is excellent information regarding the bloke who killed the duke in the shootist, I never knew that.

Regarding the giant squid in reap the wild wind what happened its career?

;)



B)

I've heard that it was Duke's idea because the guy had a couple young kids.

Rick

Fact is that Bruce Dern was little known BEFORE The Cowboys, playing small parts, heavies mostly. With The Cowboys he got his photo printed in LIFE. I think he was really recognized as a CHARACTER actor with Coming Home, and if I got it right, he was nominated for Best Supporting Actor that year, 1976 (Christopher Walken beat him to the oscar). Dern was never star material, he was - and still is - a supporting actor, that's what he's good in. The Tom Hanks movie was Burbs! - and wasn't Dern funny in it? So - I don't think that The Cowboys killed his career - it jumpstarted it, really.

(On the other hand, the Japanese extra who shoots JW in Fighting Seabees had to commit Harakiri after the film)

You've all made strong cases, but my vote has to go to Clint Heraldae in Tall in the Saddle.

Northerner.

itdo,

I think Bruce Dern was good in Down Periscope with Kelsey Grammer as well.

Ok I know this is not where Robbie or Shootister made their petty little remarks to each other but it was locked so I couldn't put my two cents in there. I just really wanted to say those silly remarks made me laugh! You two are both acting like 5 year olds!!!! I'm more mature than both of you and I'm only 13!!!!! :huh: What's up with that?!?!? I must say that if you want to argue like 2 little boys on the playground, please, do it somewhere else!

Try and Shut me up

Yeah try try try try!!!!! :angry:

Howdie Pilgrims!

Ok, you guys got me. I forgot to list the Bartender. Duh! :huh:
The actor who played the bartender, his name is Ralph Volkie. Ralph has a long history in the movie. He was in 52 movies, including;

The Shootist White Haired Bartender
Cahill U.S. Marshal Unknown
Chisum Blacksmith
The Green Berets Unknown
El Dorado Bit Player
The Sons of Katie Elder Bit Player
Donovan's Reef James
McLintock! Oldtimer in saloon
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance Townsman
The Comancheros Riverboat steward

The thing is he was only a bit player, never a leading star. This is why most of the movies he was in, he is never in the credits. It is customary in Hollywood, those bit players who never have a speaking part, are never included in the credits.

Ralph Volkie died on March 6, 1987, at the age of 77.

As for Bruce Dern, he has been in 72 films (and still going) & 53 TV shows including:

The Cowboys
The War Wagon

Personal quote on the killing of John Wayne on the silver screen; "Because I'm the only actor who ever killed John Wayne in a picture, producers have pegged me for a villain."

He has three movies coming out in the year 2003.

Tryandshutmeup,

Nice work! That's DAMN funny! Especially since one of the five year old boys CLAIMS to be a woman! :lol: :lol:

Northerner. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I agree, I think Kim Darby was the Dukes worst ever co-star. :cowboy: TRK.

Hi
Seems we're continuing old posts

I believe that Ralph Volkie was John Wayne's personal trainer and massuer.
I didn't know the date of his birth but looking it up on IMDB it gives

b. 7 July Arizona d March 6 1910-1987

In many of his early films he is credited as a referee and from 1961 was in all of John Wayne's pictures

Regards

Arthur

Hi Robbie

If we're still going for who we think was the worst actor in a John Wayne movie, I'll go for Wilfred Lawson in the First Rebel, if his performance was anymore over the top he would have been playing it on the roof.



Regards


Arthur

This might be a repeat from an earlier post, but pardon my lack of research. I think that Duke thought it was Vera Ralston. If you ask me, I though it was Michael Anderson Jr. His performance was absolutely terrible, and might have been one of my favorite movie if it wasn't for him. If he was to play that part the way he did, then I must say that the director was missed out on a great picture.

I thought that Kim Darby was great in the movie. A difficult actress that Duke worked with in the picture, but his performance, well, you know the rest.

Cheers B)

Originally posted by arthurarnell@Oct 17 2004, 03:20 AM
In many of his early films he is credited as a referee and from 1961 was in all of John Wayne's pictures

Regards

Arthur
11821


Arthur,

What did you mean about that statement quoted above? I'm not sure what that means.

Cheers B)

Hi Everyone

This was one of my first ever posts on this messageboard and its nice to see this old topic again. Like you Mike my original choice has not changed it is still Chill Willis from the Alamo and yours is still Bud Elder. If I was to nominate one more person it would be Patrick Wayne from Big Jake a truly terrible performance.

Regarding the many nominations for Kim Darby are you all slating her acting or her character as I felt her performance was brilliant.

:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Oct 17 2004, 12:28 PM
Regarding the many nominations for Kim Darby are you all slating her acting or her character as I felt her performance was brilliant.

I agree one thousand percent, Robbie. I thought she played the part of an independent, headstrong young Mattie Ross perfectly. In fact, I think two other Oscars should have been awarded in that film - one to Robert Duvall as Best Supporting Actor and one to Kim Darby as Best Supporting Actress. Kim was brilliant in the segment where she was horse-trading with Colonel Stonehill.

Hi Hondo

Ralph \Volkie appeared in 56 pictures in total and in some of them like Joe Palooka in the knockout he played the part of a referee at the boxing match.

The Big Trail gives this about Volkie

'John Wayne. That guys got the best hook since Dempsey! This is how Ralph Volkie used to describe his boss for whom he worked for a good twenty years as the Duke's personal trainer and masseur. Ralph with a background in boxing joined the Duke about 1954 and worked with the action star to keep his body in shape for the rigours of that profession. This took on an even more essential aspect after the duke's bout with cancer in the mid 60s and on the set Ralph was never too far away. He might have remained relatively unknown to most fans of the Duke if it were not for Mr Wayne's inclination to use friends and family in his movies whenever he could. After make up man Web Overlnder appeared in a number of small roles throughout the 50s trainer Volkie got the call in The Comancheros and continued to make cameo appearances in a number of the Dukes greatest. His white hair and red cheeked cherub-look made him easy to spot to the enjoyment of dukes die-hard fans.
Tim Lilley The Big Trail October 1994


If you watch The Lucy Show 'Lucy meets John Wayne', Ralph Volkie plays George who is seen giving John Wayne a massage.

Volkies Films with John Wayne

The Comancheros
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Flashing Spikes
McLintock
Donovans Reef
Sons of Katie Elder
Green Berets
Chisum
Cahill
The Shootist


Regards

Arthur

Just to throw in my tuppence here...

I belong to the group who thinks Kim Darby was great. The horse-buying scene between she and Strother Martin is one of my all-time favorites from a western.

I can't believe no one has mentioned Stefanie Powers in McLintock! yet. Yuck. I thought she was overdone and smarmy and snotty - a bad character and not great acting.

And no offense to the man himself, but I don't think Patrick Wayne was cut out of the same acting cloth as his dad. He's a good-looking lad, but he makes me cringe every time I see him in a film. I found him annoying in McLintock! as well.

Hello Ribbie, I saw Kim Darby in an episode of Gunsmoke just yesterday. Kim had co-starred with Stephan McNally as his daughter. McNally of course was a bank robber. Anyway, I tried to like her in this as well but I found she really lacked even in an episode of Gunsmoke.

:cowboy: T.R.K.

Arthur,

Thanks for the info. I saw that man on "I Love Lucy", not "The Lucy Show", and always wondered if he was Duke's real trainer and masseur.

Didn't know that he was in some of the pictures with Duke, so find that very interesting. I bet it saved money in the long run for the studio and production company.

Cheers B)

I think the worst co star in a John Wayne movie ever is Angie Dickinson in Rio Bravo, the scenes with her are so boring and annoying, I think without Angie Dickinson Rio Bravo could have been the best western ever made.

cya Jwfan

Originally posted by A Girl Named Jen@Oct 18 2004, 06:45 AM
And no offense to the man himself, but I don't think Patrick Wayne was cut out of the same acting cloth as his dad.* He's a good-looking lad, but he makes me cringe every time I see him in a film.* I found him annoying in McLintock! as well.
11876


Careful, Jen, that remark is bordering on heresy . . . <_<


. . . although you're not the only one who has had those thoughts . . . :rolleyes: .

(uh, oh, you and I might be locked next to each other in the stocks . . . . :unsure: ).


BTW, JWfan, the Mrs. totally agrees with you on Angie Dickinson.

Chester :newyear: (oh, Jen, Christmas is only 67 days away :P )

Chester,

Depends on where you are. Christmas is only 66 days away here. :P

At least Dickinson was not always on the screen. Did you know that there was almsot 24 years difference in their ages?

Cheers B)

Hi Hondo,

If you study Howard Hawks its quite easy to see how Angie Dickinson turned up in Rio Bravo, although uncomparable in acting ability, watch Lauren Bacall in Howard Hawks films look at the lines she says and the mannerisms she adopts and then look at Angie Dickinson, although not identical; they are similar enough not to be an accident, and both could be described as Hawks women.

Angie Dickinson discovered how Hawks wanted his woman to act and behave and made the mistake of telling him she understood. Despite expressing a wish to work for him again he never used her.

To a lesser degree but still with blonde hair watch Michale Carey in El Dorado, short blonde an expert horsewoman with tight jeans and a figure to kill for, the only difference is that by this time Hawks was going for the younger woman.

Regards

Arthur

Hey Chestie- you and me both, huh? ;) Who have we offended with this heretical opinion of ours?

I don't mean it personally or anything, I just don't think he was a good actor. Clearly it isn't an inherited trait, at least not with the Waynes.

And the whole thing sort of smacks of nepotism - not that I blame the Duke or anything.

Merry Christmas, podnuh! :newyear:

Originally posted by JWfan@Oct 19 2004, 02:06 AM
I think the worst co star in a John Wayne movie ever is Angie Dickinson in Rio Bravo, the scenes with her are so boring and annoying, I think without Angie Dickinson Rio Bravo could have been the best western ever made.

Well, as the old garage-sale saying goes, "One person's trash is another person's treasure". I loved Angie in that movie. I thought she and Duke played off each other very well. About the only female co-star of Wayne's who ever really turned me off was Shirley Temple in "Fort Apache".

Stumpy

I think we have run into a slight problem as this is the second time we will have agreed with each other, Angie Dickinson is great in Rio Bravo and her scenes with Duke are excellent, maybe some of you don't like her character but how do you feel about her acting.

Hawks did like to borrow a lot from one of his movies to the next.

Red River

Duke - I'm wondering weather to belive you
Tessa - I don't care weather you do or not

El Dorado

Joey- I dont believe you
Duke - Well I don't care much miss weather you do or not

I can't believe you all are talking about christmas already your all as bad as the advertisers over here although in the part time job in a local grocery shop that I work in I dod from time to time put a Chritmas CD on you should see the looks some of the customers give although I usually get slated for it. Regarding that job there is a boy there whom is at college and has to review a movie from the golden era and as hes a big John Wayne fan he picked The Searchers, if you are interested I will try and get him to post his review here.

:agent:

Defiantly Kim Darby and Katherine Ross :headbonk: My 11 year old son can't even sit through True Grit without complaining about that girls character somehow she can cause me to have allot of anxiety she is extremely annoying.
Also for all you who don't like Patrick Wayne's acting I think hes great and wish he would have done more I am a big fan of him and his Pop! :ph34r:

:cowboy: Im with you about Patrick Wayne. I think he is a good actor and I liked him most in Big Jake, The Alamo, The Searchers, and The Green Berets. I have seen him in The Deserter and one of those Sinbad movies but it has been many many years since I have seen either of them and do not recall his acting.

Speaking of Big Jake, what ever happened to Robert Mitchums son Christopher? I thought he was a good actor as well. I wonder what he is doing these days?

TRK.

Chris Mitchum is still alive however his career never really took off despite a promising start he always lived in his dads shadow.

The guy who plays Billy the Kid in Chisum is pretty poor as well and I'm no fan of Jennifer O'neill in Rio Lobo.

:agent:

:cowboy: It's good that Chris is still living but, I wonder how he is making a living these days?

I agree with you about the guy who played Billy the Kid. Not a very good actor but better than I would be I guess.

Ah yes, I remember Jennifer O' Neil. It took a moment but she was that girl who helped kill the two bad Deputy's with her Derringer. I liked what Jack Elam said when she ran to his house. "I'll be a suck-egg mule...has legs like that and can shoot to."

Im hoping Jack Elam is still around... TRK.

Hi Ringo

Chris Mitchum made a couple of pictures with John Wayne until he fell out with him on television during a discussion on environmental issues.

Jack Elam died 20th October 2003.


Regards

Arthur

I think Chris Mitchum is CEO of ACTORS REGISTRY of AMERICA

http://www.mcalistertalent.com/ara/index.html

I didn't know Chris and the Duke fell out what happened and what was said?

:agent:

:cowboy: Hi Arthur, thanks for that I had not know that about the Duke and he either.

Also thanks for that sad news, I have not know that he had passed away. Jack Elam sure was one of my favorites.