SONS OF KATIE ELDER, THE (director: Henry Hathaway; screenwriters: William H. Wright/Allan Weiss/Harry Essex/based on a story by Talbot Jennings; cinematographer: Lucien Ballard; editor: Warren Low; music: Elmer Bernstein; cast: John Wayne (John Elder), Dean Martin (Tom Elder), Martha Hyer (Mary Gordon), Michael Anderson Jr. (Bud Elder), Earl Holliman (Matt Elder), George Kennedy (Curley), Dennis Hopper (Dave Hastings), Jeremy Slate (Deputy Ben Latta), James Gregory (Morgan Hastings), Paul Fix ( Sheriff Billy Wilson), Rhys Williams (Charlie Striker), Sheldon Allman (Judge Harry Evers); Runtime: 122; MPAA Rating: NR; producer: Hal B. Wallis; Paramount; 1965)

Review:

This movie is about four brothers, Wayne plays the oldest, a gunslinger. Dean Martin is a gambler wanted for murder. Earl Holliman is an unsuccessful businessman and Michael Anderson Jr. plays the youngest brother attending college. The foursome get together for their mother's funeral and through much bickering agree to herd some cattle she purchased just prior to her death.

The best thing this movie has to offer is the cast. John Wayne has the greatest screen presence ever. Sure it probably helped that he was physically big, but his charm was that he always played a mans man, with tough talk and guns a blazing. He is the epitome of what a movie star is. Not the greatest actor, but he has the greatest screen persona.

Review: Eric (Three Movie Buffs) ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

I came upon this under Tommy Kirk's entry at IMDB awhile ago,

In 1965, I'd signed a contract for 'The Sons of Katie Elder' with John Wayne, but a week before shooting I went to a Hollywood party that the vice squad busted because of marijuana. I was handcuffed and photos of me got in the papers with headlines like 'Ex-Disney Child Star Arrested for Pot!' So Wayne and the producers fired me."

I assume he was going to play Bud. I think he would have been even more unbelievable as Duke's brother that Michael Anderson Jr. was, he's really short.

As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.

I always thought it was odd they used the name Katie Elder. Wasn't there an actual Katie Elder in the old West famed as a madam or one of the girls?

It's one of my favorite John Wayne movies anyway. It has a great Elmer Bernstein score.

Hi all,
It is a mistake in the first quote from some movie review: they were herding horses, not cattle.
I like this movie at the first for the Duke - one of his great performances, and it is seen in the movie but hard to belive that he was so sick (after the operation he didn't spend much time to recover). I read that it was very difficault to him to climb at the horse back (becouse of operation) and that the famous shooting scene in the river almost killed him.
I like the plot. I was much surprised when I saw this movie for the first time. The world how it is shown in it is very unfair. And Jhon Elder, who very much wanted to live in the right way after his mothers death, simply can't do it.
And also I think that this movie must be dear to any mothers heart.
Regards,
Senta

Originally posted by Senta+Jan 10 2006, 09:10 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Senta @ Jan 10 2006, 09:10 PM)</div>And also I think that this movie must be dear to any mothers heart.
25206[/b]
Right you are, my dear!

This mother's heart is fond of The Sons of Katie Elder, and I absolutely adore the music from it!

<!--QuoteBegin-may@Jan 10 2006, 05:19 PM
As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.25199
Regarding the age difference between John and Bud - I realize that in real life, the actors were 36 years apart, but for the story line, they could have been 20-25 years apart. My oldest child and youngest child are 18 years apart. Is there any script reference that would indicate the age difference between the characters? It's been quite awhile since we've seen the movie, so I don't remember.

Maybe we'll have to watch it again :lol: !

Mrs. C :angel1:

Being both huge fans of the duke, and dino this movie has taken a special place in my heart as a real....family movie. This is my moms favorite (and, the only one she will unforcibly watch with me), so i've seen it plenty of times. its great to see such brotherhood come together after such illdevotion.

-IHW

Hi,
Further to Kevins excellent review,
please find below, some more information,
in what I also regard as one Duke's finer movies.
His part was highly creditable, and considering his
physical condition at the time, he acted well.
Rating 8/10

THE SONS OF KATIE ELDER

DIRECTED BY HENRY HATHAWAY
RELEASED BY PARAMOUNT PICTURES
MUSIC BY ELMER BERNSTEIN

284***285


Information from IMDb

Plot Summary

The Elder boys return to Clearwater, Texas for their Mother's funeral. John the eldest is a well known gunfighter and trouble follows him wherever he goes. The boys try to get back their ranch from the towns gunsmith who won it from their father in a card game with which he was shortly murdered there after but not before getting through the troubles that come with the Elders name.

Summary written by Christopher D. Ryan

Full Cast

John Wayne .... John Elder
Dean Martin .... Tom Elder
Martha Hyer .... Mary Gordon
Michael Anderson Jr. .... Bud Elder
Earl Holliman .... Matt Elder
Jeremy Slate .... Deputy Ben Latta
James Gregory .... Morgan Hastings
Paul Fix .... Sheriff Billy Wilson
George Kennedy .... Curley
Dennis Hopper .... Dave Hastings
Sheldon Allman .... Judge Harry Evers
John Litel .... Minister
John Doucette .... Henry Hyselman (undertaker)
James Westerfield .... Venner (banker)
Rhys Williams .... Charlie Striker
John Qualen .... Charlie Biller
Rodolfo Acosta .... Bondie Adams
Strother Martin .... Jeb Ross
Percy Helton .... Peevey (storekeeper)
Karl Swenson .... Doc Isdell (bartender)
Glen Anderson
Paul Whitson
Jerry Gatlin .... Amboy (uncredited)
Harvey Grant .... Jeb (uncredited)
Loren Janes .... Ned Reese (uncredited)
Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... Burr Sandeman (uncredited)
Chuck Roberson .... Townsman (uncredited)
Ralph Volkie .... Bit part (uncredited)
Jack Williams .... Andy Sharp (uncredited)
Henry Wills .... Gus Dolly (uncredited)
Joe Yrigoyen .... Buck Mason (uncredited)

Stunts

Bill Babcock .... stunts (uncredited)
Jerry Gatlin .... stunts (uncredited)
Chuck Hayward .... stunts (uncredited)
Loren Janes .... stunts (uncredited)
Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... stunts (uncredited)
Chuck Roberson .... stunts (uncredited)
Jack Williams .... stunts (uncredited)
Henry Wills .... stunts (uncredited)
Joe Yrigoyen .... stunts (uncredited)

Other crew
Johnny Cash .... singer (uncredited)
'Chema' Hernandez .... head wrangler: Mexico (uncredited)

Writing credits
Talbot Jennings (story)

William H. Wright (screenplay) and
Allan Weiss (screenplay) and
Harry Essex (screenplay)

Produced by
Paul Nathan .... associate producer
Hal B. Wallis .... producer
Joseph H. Hazen .... executive producer (uncredited)

Original Music by
Elmer Bernstein

Cinematography by
Lucien Ballard (director of photography)

Art Direction by
Hal Pereira
Walter H. Tyler (as Walter Tyler)

Set Decoration by
Sam Comer
Ray Moyer

Costume Design by
Edith Head

Makeup Department
Loren Cosand .... makeup artist (as Loren Cossand)
Web Overlander .... makeup artist (as Webb Overlander)
Dorothy White .... hair stylist

Production Management
William W. Gray .... unit production manager

Second Unit Director or Assistant Director
Michael D. Moore .... assistant director (as D. Michael Moore)
Joselito Rodríguez .... second unit director (uncredited)

Filming Locations

Casa Blanca, Durango, Mexico

Chupaderos, Durango, Mexico

Churubusco Studios, Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico
(studio)

Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad, Durango, Colorado, USA

Durango, Mexico

El Saltito, Durango, Mexico

Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico

Trivia

* This picture marked the return of John Wayne to work after having a cancerous lung removed just four months earlier. He insisted on doing all his own stunts to show the public that the illness hadn't slowed him down.

* The film was shot in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California. When he wasn't working, John Wayne often had to breathe using an oxygen tank.

* The real Katie Elder was the wife of Doc Holliday, one of the gunfighters at the OK Corral.

Goofs

* Continuity: John Elder fires 14 shots from a six-shooter without reloading.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: In the gun battle between the Elder Brothers and Hasting's henchman at the bridge, there aren't enough sounds to match the puffs of smoke from the guns.

* Continuity: When Tom and Bud are shackled together, the shackles are placed on Tom's left leg and Bud's right leg, as seen when they try to walk away. In subsequent shots, the shackles are on Bud's left leg and Tom's right.

* Continuity: When The Elder boys are in town and decide to go to look at their old ranch, Tom has a scruffy beard. When they ride to the ranch and have a run in with the deputy, Tom is now clean shaven. They all ride back into town. When they reach town, Tom has his scruffy beard again.

* Revealing mistakes: During the gunfight between John Elder and Morgan Hastings in the gun shop at the end of the movie John looks up from behind the counter and Morgan fires a round at him. You see a glow on the counter where the bullet strikes the counter before the bullet gets there. This is where the small charge is that simulates the bullet strike.

Memorable Quotes

Bud Elder: I'm going with you. I can draw pretty fast. We can be famous -- like the Dalton Brothers!
John Elder: They're famous -- but they're just a little bit dead. They were hung!

INFORMATION IMDb

This is an excellent solid western.

With regards to the shootout at the bridge how many men were killed I counted five and secondly was there any additional footage of the bridge shootout filmed?

:agent:

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Jan 20 2006, 02:35 PM
MUSIC BY ELMER BERSTEIN25554
The music from this movie is exceptional and, for me at least, quite memorable.

Another piece of trivia - Martha Hyer, who played the part of Mary Gordon, has another link to John Wayne in that she has writing credits for the movie Rooster Cogburn.

This film is available from Deep Discount DVD ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) both individually and as part of a boxed set, and they also have one movie poster.

Amazon ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) has the newer Paramount DVD release, and an older release on DVD and VHS.

Chester :newyear:

I loved the Sons of Katie Elder. I thought that this one was fantastic. Well acted, if a bit over the top (especially the scenes with Bud) but awesome nonetheless. A really great story.

Originally posted by may2@Jan 10 2006, 09:19 PM
I came upon this under Tommy Kirk's entry at IMDB awhile ago,
I assume he was going to play Bud.* I think he would have been even more unbelievable as Duke's brother that Michael Anderson Jr. was, he's really short.

As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.

I always thought it was odd they used the name Katie Elder.* Wasn't there an actual Katie Elder in the old West famed as a madam or one of the girls?

It's one of my favorite John Wayne movies anyway.* It has a great Elmer Bernstein score.
25199

It wasn't unusual for people in rural America to have rather large families and at a vast age span....ie, my Dad's family was 13 brothes and sisters with 4 half brothers and a half sister for a grand total of 18 kids :wacko: , the first being born in 1928 and the last being born in 1954. Birth control was not well practiced then or before.

Check this out, there was indeed a Kate Elder. She was Doc Holliday's (of O.K. corral fame) wife/girlfriend or whatever. She was called "Big nosed" Kate Elder.

Originally posted by sun526@Oct 11 2006, 07:52 AM
It wasn't unusual for people in rural America to have rather large families and at a vast age span....35768

. . . and in not so rural America, there are still some families - ours, for example - that have more than the typical 2.5 children. We have six, and the age distance from the oldest to the youngest is 18 years (our oldest is 26 years old and the youngest is 8). In today's society, six kids is probably equivalent to the 18 of your dad's generation. You should see the looks on people's faces when we say we have six kids. :fear2:

Today, the age range is not necessarily unusual, but that is because of so many second marriages, and second sets of kids. In our case, however, all six are ours.

Chester :newyear:

Originally posted by sun526@Oct 11 2006, 03:52 PM
Check this out, there was indeed a Kate Elder. She was Doc Holliday's (of O.K. corral fame) wife/girlfriend or whatever. She was called "Big nosed" Kate Elder.
35768


This is from my initial post:-
Jan 20 2006, 11:35 PM

* The real Katie Elder was the wife of Doc Holliday, one of the gunfighters at the OK Corral
Hi,

Thanks Jim, you making your post above,
reminded, me to link, sun526,
to the story Bill is collecting, regarding the 'real' Katie Elder,
follow the links below,

817

Duke Stories- Page 48 ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Katie Elder ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Wikipedia- Big Nose Kate ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Mary Katherine Haroney ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Oct 18 2006, 10:55 AM
This is from my initial post:-

Hi,

Thanks Jim, you making your post above,
reminded, me to link, sun526,
to the story Bill is collecting, regarding the 'real' Katie Elder,
follow the links below,

[ATTACH]910]

Duke Stories- Page 48 ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Katie Elder ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Wikipedia- Big Nose Kate ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Mary Katherine Haroney ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
36101
Sorry bout that. I missed you already posted that info. Sometimes in long post's I miss some info and sometimes my little ol' attention span wanders :uhuh: .

Hi sun526,

I know what you mean, as these days,
there is so much information available!!
I include as much info, as I can,
so there is no need, to go on the internet looking for it.

Bills, work on Katie Elder,
is very interesting, hope you enjoyed it.

Thanks, for your support of the Movie Forum
and your interesting replies,

Originally posted by may2@Jan 11 2006, 03:19 AM


As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.


25199



My mom comes from a large family and her oldest brother is now 83yrs old while her youngest brother will turn 54 next month.That is enough of an age difference to me.

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Oct 19 2006, 04:18 AM
Hi sun526,

I know what you mean, as these days,
there is so much information available!!
I include as much info, as I can,
so there is no need, to go on the internet looking for it.

Bills, work on Katie Elder,
is very interesting, hope you enjoyed it.

Thanks, for your support of the Movie Forum
and your interesting replies,
36132

Yes indeed! I do appreciate the info. I may not post a lot, but I do read a bunch, and most everytime I learn something new ;) .

Originally posted by Moonshine_Sally@Oct 19 2006, 12:55 PM
My mom comes from a large family and her oldest brother is now 83yrs old while her youngest brother will turn 54 next month.That is enough of an age difference to me.
36138

Ya know, it occured to me, the one thing I think we fogot to mention when talking about the age span in the Elder brothers characters and the fact that Katie would had to have been fertile for 30 some odd years, is the fact that back in the 1700's, 1800's, and up into the 1900's that is wasn't uncommon for girls to wed as early as 12 yrs. old (some by arranged marriages) and have their first child by the time they were 13 or 14 yrs. old and would continue to have children into their early 40's, especially in rural areas, as well as in some metropolitan areas.

Originally posted by sun526@Oct 19 2006, 08:49 PM
Ya know, it occured to me, the one thing I think we fogot to mention when talking about the age span in the Elder brothers characters and the fact that Katie would had to have been fertile for 30 some odd years, is the fact that back in the 1700's, 1800's, and up into the 1900's that is wasn't uncommon for girls to wed as early as 12 yrs. old (some by arranged marriages) and have their first child by the time they were 13 or 14 yrs. old and would continue to have children into their early 40's, especially in rural areas, as well as in some metropolitan areas.
36145



Not to mention that many children(and mothers)died during childbirth.It is never said that Katie Elder only gave birth to her 4 boys.For all we know she might have had more children and they might have died at an earlie age.

Hi

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

A scene from The Sons of Katie Elder one of my favourite westerns with from left to right
Michael Anderson jr Dean Martin, John Wayne, Earl Holiman and Jeremy Slate'

Regards

Arthur

Not to mention that many children(and mothers)died during childbirth.It is never said that Katie Elder only gave birth to her 4 boys.For all we know she might have had more children and they might have died at an earlie age.
Here's another slant - it never says she gave birth to all of her boys. As you so rightly point out, many mothers died in childbirth, leaving motherless children. Katie might have been step-mother to one or more of the older brothers, which might also explain the age gap.

Mrs. C :angel1:

This little piggy appeared in another thread,
so I've brought it back home

1450

I just watched this last night and I enjoyed it more than I remembered, the score was beautiful and I must give Bernstein his due he is indeed a damn good composer. The cinematography was just beautiful, and with the exception of Hopper I enjoyed everyones performance.

John Wayne's intro in this movie is my all time favorite intro in any of his movies. He looked amazingly good and appeared to be in the best health of his life here, after reading about events leading up to this it makes it even more significant in his career to me.

The ending however left me very unsatisfied, I wanted to Duke to beat the hell out of Hastings and instead all he did was blow him up.... that was too good of a way for Hastings to die.

Up next for my viewing pleasure Liberty Valance.

Here are a couple of posters, the second one being a "combo" poster for two movies (a 1975 reissue). I have not ever seen one like that, and in this particular case, I've not heard of the second movie. But it is pretty interesting.

2038

2039

Hi Chester

Red Line 7000 is a racing film directed by Howard Hawks, its not a good film in my opinion certainly not up to Hawks usual standard but interestingly enough it has much of the same cast as El Dorado.

:agent:

Here is an example of the comic from the movie. Enjoy!

Mark

[Only registered and activated users can see links] 965.jpg

good film the sons of katie elder,i enjoy watching duke + dean martin in it and its not as bad as some westerns i've seen

The John Elder role for me is his best in a Western whos not directed by Hawks or Ford - next his last one as J.B.Books

I watched the Sons of Katie Elder again.

Pilar states in her book you can hear Ethan's scream in it when Duke hits the water. I can't hear it, but I haven't used headphones yet either. Have any of you heard the scream?
I have also heard that story, and tried hard to hear it myself, even turning the volume up real loud, and I have never heard it. I wonder if somehow they were able to remove that sound when the movie was transferred to VHS and now to DVD.

Like ShortGrub asked, is there anyone here who has heard it?

Chester :newyear:

I must admit, I haven't heard it either!

Just love that Movie. I always enjoyed that movie. The four sons John Wayne, Dean Martin, Michael Anderson Jr. (Bud Elder) and Earl Holliman (Matt Elder) aren't really looking like four brothers but there was a good chemistry between the four actors. Unfortunately Dino hasn't made more movies with Duke. This time Dean Martin didn't steal the Show. The second half of The Sons of Katie Elder reminded me on Rio Bravo. Good Movie, great Western and always fun to watch.:teeth_smile:

I'm also curious about the scream. I'll watch it soon again and I if I hear the scream I'll post it.

I've watched this film loads of times and i've never heard the scream JohnChisum but i'll watch it again and pay closer attention to see if i can hear anything

The score is my favorite of all JW films. Really liked that rousing music, especially at the beginning of the picture.

I've watched this film loads of times and i've never heard the scream JohnChisum but i'll watch it again and pay closer attention to see if i can hear anything


According to IMDB the scream can be heard.
When John Wayne ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) is dragged into the river, you can hear a child calling out, "Dad!". This was his three-year-old son Ethan Wayne ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), who was watching off camera and knew how ill his father was.


Cannot remember If I ever heard a scream. Maybe they really cut it out of the DVD releases.


Oh yes the music score is great. There is a great theme when John Wayne is walking to get the villain before the last shootout. :hyper:

One of my favorites as well...

FnGLBxxHrn0

Thanks, gt, for that! I, too, consider that a very rousing score.

Mrs. C :angel1: