SONS OF KATIE ELDER, THE (director: Henry Hathaway; screenwriters: William H. Wright/Allan Weiss/Harry Essex/based on a story by Talbot Jennings; cinematographer: Lucien Ballard; editor: Warren Low; music: Elmer Bernstein; cast: John Wayne (John Elder), Dean Martin (Tom Elder), Martha Hyer (Mary Gordon), Michael Anderson Jr. (Bud Elder), Earl Holliman (Matt Elder), George Kennedy (Curley), Dennis Hopper (Dave Hastings), Jeremy Slate (Deputy Ben Latta), James Gregory (Morgan Hastings), Paul Fix ( Sheriff Billy Wilson), Rhys Williams (Charlie Striker), Sheldon Allman (Judge Harry Evers); Runtime: 122; MPAA Rating: NR; producer: Hal B. Wallis; Paramount; 1965)

Review:

This movie is about four brothers, Wayne plays the oldest, a gunslinger. Dean Martin is a gambler wanted for murder. Earl Holliman is an unsuccessful businessman and Michael Anderson Jr. plays the youngest brother attending college. The foursome get together for their mother's funeral and through much bickering agree to herd some cattle she purchased just prior to her death.

The best thing this movie has to offer is the cast. John Wayne has the greatest screen presence ever. Sure it probably helped that he was physically big, but his charm was that he always played a mans man, with tough talk and guns a blazing. He is the epitome of what a movie star is. Not the greatest actor, but he has the greatest screen persona.

Review: Eric (Three Movie Buffs) (http://www.threemoviebuffs.com/review.php?movieID=sonsofkatieelder)

I came upon this under Tommy Kirk's entry at IMDB awhile ago,

In 1965, I'd signed a contract for 'The Sons of Katie Elder' with John Wayne, but a week before shooting I went to a Hollywood party that the vice squad busted because of marijuana. I was handcuffed and photos of me got in the papers with headlines like 'Ex-Disney Child Star Arrested for Pot!' So Wayne and the producers fired me."

I assume he was going to play Bud. I think he would have been even more unbelievable as Duke's brother that Michael Anderson Jr. was, he's really short.

As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.

I always thought it was odd they used the name Katie Elder. Wasn't there an actual Katie Elder in the old West famed as a madam or one of the girls?

It's one of my favorite John Wayne movies anyway. It has a great Elmer Bernstein score.

Hi all,
It is a mistake in the first quote from some movie review: they were herding horses, not cattle.
I like this movie at the first for the Duke - one of his great performances, and it is seen in the movie but hard to belive that he was so sick (after the operation he didn't spend much time to recover). I read that it was very difficault to him to climb at the horse back (becouse of operation) and that the famous shooting scene in the river almost killed him.
I like the plot. I was much surprised when I saw this movie for the first time. The world how it is shown in it is very unfair. And Jhon Elder, who very much wanted to live in the right way after his mothers death, simply can't do it.
And also I think that this movie must be dear to any mothers heart.
Regards,
Senta

Originally posted by Senta - Jan 10 2006, 09:10 PM
And also I think that this movie must be dear to any mothers heart.

Right you are, my dear!

This mother's heart is fond of The Sons of Katie Elder, and I absolutely adore the music from it!

As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.

Regarding the age difference between John and Bud - I realize that in real life, the actors were 36 years apart, but for the story line, they could have been 20-25 years apart. My oldest child and youngest child are 18 years apart. Is there any script reference that would indicate the age difference between the characters? It's been quite awhile since we've seen the movie, so I don't remember.

Maybe we'll have to watch it again :lol: !

Mrs. C :angel1:

Being both huge fans of the duke, and dino this movie has taken a special place in my heart as a real....family movie. This is my moms favorite (and, the only one she will unforcibly watch with me), so i've seen it plenty of times. its great to see such brotherhood come together after such illdevotion.

-IHW

Hi,
Further to Kevins excellent review,
please find below, some more information,
in what I also regard as one Duke's finer movies.
His part was highly creditable, and considering his
physical condition at the time, he acted well.
Rating 8/10
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
THE SONS OF KATIE ELDER

DIRECTED HENRY HATHAWAY
MUSIC BY ELMER BERNSTEIN
PRODUCED BY HAL B. WALLIS
PARAMOUNT PICTURES

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/john-wayne/John%20Wayne/B00005ASGH01_PE46_The_Sons_of_Katie.jpg..http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/john-wayne/John%20Wayne/Sons_of_Katie_Elder_2.jpg

Information from IMDb

Plot Summary
The Elder boys return to Clearwater, Texas for their Mother's funeral. John the eldest is a well known gunfighter and trouble follows him wherever he goes. The boys try to get back their ranch from the towns gunsmith who won it from their father in a card game with which he was shortly murdered there after but not before getting through the troubles that come with the Elders name.
Summary written by Christopher D. Ryan

Full Cast
John Wayne .... John Elder
Dean Martin .... Tom Elder
Martha Hyer .... Mary Gordon
Michael Anderson Jr. .... Bud Elder
Earl Holliman .... Matt Elder
Jeremy Slate .... Deputy Ben Latta
James Gregory .... Morgan Hastings
Paul Fix .... Sheriff Billy Wilson
George Kennedy .... Curley
Dennis Hopper .... Dave Hastings
Sheldon Allman .... Judge Harry Evers
John Litel .... Minister
John Doucette .... Henry Hyselman (undertaker)
James Westerfield .... Venner (banker)
Rhys Williams .... Charlie Striker
John Qualen .... Charlie Biller
Rodolfo Acosta .... Bondie Adams
Strother Martin .... Jeb Ross
Percy Helton .... Peevey (storekeeper)
Karl Swenson .... Doc Isdell (bartender)
Glen Anderson
Paul Whitson
Jerry Gatlin .... Amboy (uncredited)
Harvey Grant .... Jeb (uncredited)
Loren Janes .... Ned Reese (uncredited)
Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... Burr Sandeman (uncredited)
Chuck Roberson .... Townsman (uncredited)
Ralph Volkie .... Bit part (uncredited)
Jack Williams .... Andy Sharp (uncredited)
Henry Wills .... Gus Dolly (uncredited)
Joe Yrigoyen .... Buck Mason (uncredited)

Stunts
Bill Babcock .... stunts (uncredited)
Jerry Gatlin .... stunts (uncredited)
Chuck Hayward .... stunts (uncredited)
Loren Janes .... stunts (uncredited)
Boyd 'Red' Morgan .... stunts (uncredited)
Chuck Roberson .... stunts (uncredited)
Jack Williams .... stunts (uncredited)
Henry Wills .... stunts (uncredited)
Joe Yrigoyen .... stunts (uncredited)

Other crew
Johnny Cash .... singer (uncredited)
'Chema' Hernandez .... head wrangler: Mexico (uncredited)

Writing Credits
Talbot Jennings (story)
William H. Wright (screenplay) and
Allan Weiss (screenplay) and
Harry Essex (screenplay)

Produced
Paul Nathan .... associate producer
Hal B. Wallis .... producer
Joseph H. Hazen .... executive producer (uncredited)

Original Music
Elmer Bernstein

Cinematography
Lucien Ballard (director of photography)

Trivia
This picture marked the return of John Wayne to work after having a cancerous lung removed just four months earlier. He insisted on doing all his own stunts to show the public that the illness hadn't slowed him down.

Michael Anderson Jr. replaced Tommy Kirk at very short notice.

Despite this being a big-budget movie with a large cast, Karl Swenson was utilized to play two parts. He played "Doc Isdell" and also the bartender in the scene where the Dean Martin character auctioned his eye. The bartender part actually had more lines of dialogue.

John Wayne, aged 57, was 36 years older than Michael Anderson Jr., who played his younger brother Bud.

Filming was due to begin in September 1964, but had to be delayed until January 1965 after John Wayne was diagnosed with lung cancer.

According to her tombstone, Katie Elder was 64 when she died. Her eldest son is played by 57-year-old John Wayne.

When John Wayne is dragged into the river, you can hear a child calling out, "Dad!". This was his three-year-old son Ethan Wayne, who was watching off camera and knew how ill his father was.

In western history, there is a famous Katie Elder: "Big Nose" Kate Elder, a prostitute and girlfriend of legendary gunfighter John "Doc" Holliday.

The hearse featured at the funeral of Katie Elder currently resides in front of the Haunted Mansion at Walt Disney World.

John Wayne allegedly had Tommy Kirk fired after learning the young actor was gay.

The story was originally set to be filmed in 1956, starring Alan Ladd and directed by John Sturges.

Tommy Kirk is quoted as saying he was fired from this production for a drug bust. He was at a party that was raided for marijuana and a picture of Tommy in handcuffs made the paper. Even Tommy never said his release had anything to do with his being gay.

This film premiered on ABC television the same night as the infamous "Heidi" incident on NBC.

Remade in a modern setting as Four Brothers (2005).

Goofs
* Continuity: John Elder fires 14 shots from a six-shooter without reloading.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: In the gun battle between the Elder Brothers and Hasting's henchman at the bridge, there aren't enough sounds to match the puffs of smoke from the guns.

* Continuity: When Tom and Bud are shackled together, the shackles are placed on Tom's left leg and Bud's right leg, as seen when they try to walk away. In subsequent shots, the shackles are on Bud's left leg and Tom's right.

* Continuity: When the Elder boys are in town and decide to go to look at their old ranch, Tom has a scruffy beard. When they ride to the ranch and have a run in with the deputy, Tom is now clean shaven. They all ride back into town. When they reach town, Tom has his scruffy beard again.

* Revealing mistakes: During the gunfight between John Elder and Morgan Hastings in the gun shop at the end of the movie John looks up from behind the counter and Morgan fires a round at him. You see a glow on the counter where the bullet strikes the counter before the bullet gets there. This is where the small charge is that simulates the bullet strike.

* Continuity: John Elder arrives in town for the first time and goes directly to the sheriff's office. As he reaches for the front door to enter his jacket is hung up behind the handle of his holstered pistol, but when he comes through the door his jacket is draped over the gun.

* Revealing mistakes: If you slow motion the sequence where John Elder (Wayne) draws his pistol on the sheriff in the graveyard, you can see that there are two guns, one in his holster, and another in his hand, done (not very well) in an effort to make him look fast on the draw.

* Factual errors: When Bud says he is going with John and that they'll be famous like the Daltons, John replies that the Daltons were dead having been hung. Three of the Dalton brothers, Gratton "Grat" Dalton, Robert Rennick "Bob" Dalton, and Emmett "Em" Dalton all participated in a famous attempted two bank robbery in Coffeeville, KS on Oct. 5, 1892. Grat and Bob, along with two gang members, were gunned down and killed by town's people. Emmett, although shot some 22 times, survived. He went to prison until 1907. He died in Hollywood, CA July 13, 1937. An older brother, Frank, a US Deputy Marshal, was killed in the line of duty on Nov. 27, 1887. The Dalton's criminal career lasted just over four years. The photo taken of the four killed in Coffeeville is one of the most famous photos showing the eventual end of those who flout the law.

* Revealing mistakes: The man who John Wayne hits in the face with a stick is obviously not George Kennedy.

* Crew or equipment visible: When Ben Latta leaps forward to catch the revolver thrown by John Elder, the cable that snatches him backwards (after being shot by Morgan Hastings), can just be seen trailing behind him.

* Continuity: When he is seen watching the funeral, the position of John Elder's hands change between the long shot (hanging by his side) and the close shot (his left on his hip, his right on his gun). A rock visible behind him in the long shot disappears as well.

* Continuity: When the Elders get on the Bridge, you can clearly see that the water has a strong current. Yet when Tom and Bud jump in to get more guns the water is like a mirror.

* Continuity: SPOILER: When Curley is shot there is no wound visible. A few scenes later he can be seen in the bottom right corner of the screen on the ground with a bullet wound above his eye.

Memorable Quotes (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059740/quotes)

Filming Locations
Casa Blanca, Durango, Mexico
Chupaderos, Durango, Mexico
Churubusco Studios, Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico
(studio)
Denver & Rio Grande Western Railroad, Durango, Colorado, USA
Durango, Mexico
El Saltito, Durango, Mexico
Mexico City, México D.F., Mexico

Watch the Trailer:-

wcgzXae3sPk

Memorable Quotes

Bud Elder: I'm going with you. I can draw pretty fast. We can be famous -- like the Dalton Brothers!
John Elder: They're famous -- but they're just a little bit dead. They were hung!

INFORMATION IMDb

This is an excellent solid western.

With regards to the shootout at the bridge how many men were killed I counted five and secondly was there any additional footage of the bridge shootout filmed?

:agent:

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Jan 20 2006, 02:35 PM
MUSIC BY ELMER BERSTEIN25554
The music from this movie is exceptional and, for me at least, quite memorable.

Another piece of trivia - Martha Hyer, who played the part of Mary Gordon, has another link to John Wayne in that she has writing credits for the movie Rooster Cogburn.

This film is available from Deep Discount DVD (http://search.deepdiscountdvd.com/search?p=Q&ts=custom&w=katie+elder&search.x=0&search.y=0) both individually and as part of a boxed set, and they also have one movie poster.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Sons-Katie-Elder-John-Wayne/dp/B00005ASGH/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1258954438&sr=8-4) has the newer Paramount DVD release, and an older release on DVD and VHS.

Chester :newyear:

I loved the Sons of Katie Elder. I thought that this one was fantastic. Well acted, if a bit over the top (especially the scenes with Bud) but awesome nonetheless. A really great story.

Originally posted by may2@Jan 10 2006, 09:19 PM
I came upon this under Tommy Kirk's entry at IMDB awhile ago,
I assume he was going to play Bud.* I think he would have been even more unbelievable as Duke's brother that Michael Anderson Jr. was, he's really short.

As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.

I always thought it was odd they used the name Katie Elder.* Wasn't there an actual Katie Elder in the old West famed as a madam or one of the girls?

It's one of my favorite John Wayne movies anyway.* It has a great Elmer Bernstein score.
25199

It wasn't unusual for people in rural America to have rather large families and at a vast age span....ie, my Dad's family was 13 brothes and sisters with 4 half brothers and a half sister for a grand total of 18 kids :wacko: , the first being born in 1928 and the last being born in 1954. Birth control was not well practiced then or before.

Check this out, there was indeed a Kate Elder. She was Doc Holliday's (of O.K. corral fame) wife/girlfriend or whatever. She was called "Big nosed" Kate Elder.

Originally posted by sun526@Oct 11 2006, 07:52 AM
It wasn't unusual for people in rural America to have rather large families and at a vast age span....35768

. . . and in not so rural America, there are still some families - ours, for example - that have more than the typical 2.5 children. We have six, and the age distance from the oldest to the youngest is 18 years (our oldest is 26 years old and the youngest is 8). In today's society, six kids is probably equivalent to the 18 of your dad's generation. You should see the looks on people's faces when we say we have six kids. :fear2:

Today, the age range is not necessarily unusual, but that is because of so many second marriages, and second sets of kids. In our case, however, all six are ours.

Chester :newyear:

Originally posted by sun526@Oct 11 2006, 03:52 PM
Check this out, there was indeed a Kate Elder. She was Doc Holliday's (of O.K. corral fame) wife/girlfriend or whatever. She was called "Big nosed" Kate Elder.
35768


This is from my initial post:-
Jan 20 2006, 11:35 PM

* The real Katie Elder was the wife of Doc Holliday, one of the gunfighters at the OK Corral
Hi,

Thanks Jim, you making your post above,
reminded, me to link, sun526,
to the story Bill is collecting, regarding the 'real' Katie Elder,
follow the links below,

817

Duke Stories- Page 48 (http://www.dukewayne.com/showthread.php?t=1076&st=690)

Katie Elder (http://www.ranch26bar.com/KATIE.html)

Wikipedia- Big Nose Kate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Nose_Kate)

Mary Katherine Haroney (http://thenaturalamerican.com/big_nose_kate.htm)

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Oct 18 2006, 10:55 AM
This is from my initial post:-

Hi,

Thanks Jim, you making your post above,
reminded, me to link, sun526,
to the story Bill is collecting, regarding the 'real' Katie Elder,
follow the links below,

[ATTACH]910]

Duke Stories- Page 48 (http://www.dukewayne.com/showthread.php?t=1076&st=690)

Katie Elder (http://www.ranch26bar.com/KATIE.html)

Wikipedia- Big Nose Kate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Nose_Kate)

Mary Katherine Haroney (http://thenaturalamerican.com/big_nose_kate.htm)
36101
Sorry bout that. I missed you already posted that info. Sometimes in long post's I miss some info and sometimes my little ol' attention span wanders :uhuh: .

Hi sun526,

I know what you mean, as these days,
there is so much information available!!
I include as much info, as I can,
so there is no need, to go on the internet looking for it.

Bills, work on Katie Elder,
is very interesting, hope you enjoyed it.

Thanks, for your support of the Movie Forum
and your interesting replies,

Originally posted by may2@Jan 11 2006, 03:19 AM


As it was Katie must have been fertile for 35 years to have sons with such a large age span.


25199



My mom comes from a large family and her oldest brother is now 83yrs old while her youngest brother will turn 54 next month.That is enough of an age difference to me.

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Oct 19 2006, 04:18 AM
Hi sun526,

I know what you mean, as these days,
there is so much information available!!
I include as much info, as I can,
so there is no need, to go on the internet looking for it.

Bills, work on Katie Elder,
is very interesting, hope you enjoyed it.

Thanks, for your support of the Movie Forum
and your interesting replies,
36132

Yes indeed! I do appreciate the info. I may not post a lot, but I do read a bunch, and most everytime I learn something new ;) .

Originally posted by Moonshine_Sally@Oct 19 2006, 12:55 PM
My mom comes from a large family and her oldest brother is now 83yrs old while her youngest brother will turn 54 next month.That is enough of an age difference to me.
36138

Ya know, it occured to me, the one thing I think we fogot to mention when talking about the age span in the Elder brothers characters and the fact that Katie would had to have been fertile for 30 some odd years, is the fact that back in the 1700's, 1800's, and up into the 1900's that is wasn't uncommon for girls to wed as early as 12 yrs. old (some by arranged marriages) and have their first child by the time they were 13 or 14 yrs. old and would continue to have children into their early 40's, especially in rural areas, as well as in some metropolitan areas.

Originally posted by sun526@Oct 19 2006, 08:49 PM
Ya know, it occured to me, the one thing I think we fogot to mention when talking about the age span in the Elder brothers characters and the fact that Katie would had to have been fertile for 30 some odd years, is the fact that back in the 1700's, 1800's, and up into the 1900's that is wasn't uncommon for girls to wed as early as 12 yrs. old (some by arranged marriages) and have their first child by the time they were 13 or 14 yrs. old and would continue to have children into their early 40's, especially in rural areas, as well as in some metropolitan areas.
36145



Not to mention that many children(and mothers)died during childbirth.It is never said that Katie Elder only gave birth to her 4 boys.For all we know she might have had more children and they might have died at an earlie age.

Hi

http://www.dukewayne.com/imagehosting/22545d87b2a98b1b.jpg

A scene from The Sons of Katie Elder one of my favourite westerns with from left to right
Michael Anderson jr Dean Martin, John Wayne, Earl Holiman and Jeremy Slate'

Regards

Arthur

Not to mention that many children(and mothers)died during childbirth.It is never said that Katie Elder only gave birth to her 4 boys.For all we know she might have had more children and they might have died at an earlie age.
Here's another slant - it never says she gave birth to all of her boys. As you so rightly point out, many mothers died in childbirth, leaving motherless children. Katie might have been step-mother to one or more of the older brothers, which might also explain the age gap.

Mrs. C :angel1:

This little piggy appeared in another thread,
so I've brought it back home

1450

I just watched this last night and I enjoyed it more than I remembered, the score was beautiful and I must give Bernstein his due he is indeed a damn good composer. The cinematography was just beautiful, and with the exception of Hopper I enjoyed everyones performance.

John Wayne's intro in this movie is my all time favorite intro in any of his movies. He looked amazingly good and appeared to be in the best health of his life here, after reading about events leading up to this it makes it even more significant in his career to me.

The ending however left me very unsatisfied, I wanted to Duke to beat the hell out of Hastings and instead all he did was blow him up.... that was too good of a way for Hastings to die.

Up next for my viewing pleasure Liberty Valance.

Here are a couple of posters, the second one being a "combo" poster for two movies (a 1975 reissue). I have not ever seen one like that, and in this particular case, I've not heard of the second movie. But it is pretty interesting.

2038

2039

Hi Chester

Red Line 7000 is a racing film directed by Howard Hawks, its not a good film in my opinion certainly not up to Hawks usual standard but interestingly enough it has much of the same cast as El Dorado.

:agent:

Here is an example of the comic from the movie. Enjoy!

Mark

http://www.alljohnwayne.com/Comics/The%20Sons%20Of%20Katie%20Elder%20comic%20Dell%201 965.jpg

good film the sons of katie elder,i enjoy watching duke + dean martin in it and its not as bad as some westerns i've seen

The John Elder role for me is his best in a Western whos not directed by Hawks or Ford - next his last one as J.B.Books

I watched the Sons of Katie Elder again.

Pilar states in her book you can hear Ethan's scream in it when Duke hits the water. I can't hear it, but I haven't used headphones yet either. Have any of you heard the scream?
I have also heard that story, and tried hard to hear it myself, even turning the volume up real loud, and I have never heard it. I wonder if somehow they were able to remove that sound when the movie was transferred to VHS and now to DVD.

Like ShortGrub asked, is there anyone here who has heard it?

Chester :newyear:

I must admit, I haven't heard it either!

Just love that Movie. I always enjoyed that movie. The four sons John Wayne, Dean Martin, Michael Anderson Jr. (Bud Elder) and Earl Holliman (Matt Elder) aren't really looking like four brothers but there was a good chemistry between the four actors. Unfortunately Dino hasn't made more movies with Duke. This time Dean Martin didn't steal the Show. The second half of The Sons of Katie Elder reminded me on Rio Bravo. Good Movie, great Western and always fun to watch.:teeth_smile:

I'm also curious about the scream. I'll watch it soon again and I if I hear the scream I'll post it.

I've watched this film loads of times and i've never heard the scream JohnChisum but i'll watch it again and pay closer attention to see if i can hear anything

The score is my favorite of all JW films. Really liked that rousing music, especially at the beginning of the picture.

I've watched this film loads of times and i've never heard the scream JohnChisum but i'll watch it again and pay closer attention to see if i can hear anything


According to IMDB the scream can be heard.
When John Wayne (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000078/) is dragged into the river, you can hear a child calling out, "Dad!". This was his three-year-old son Ethan Wayne (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0915550/), who was watching off camera and knew how ill his father was.


Cannot remember If I ever heard a scream. Maybe they really cut it out of the DVD releases.


Oh yes the music score is great. There is a great theme when John Wayne is walking to get the villain before the last shootout. :hyper:

One of my favorites as well...

FnGLBxxHrn0

Thanks, gt, for that! I, too, consider that a very rousing score.

Mrs. C :angel1:

I watched the Sons of Katie Elder again.

Pilar states in her book you can hear Ethan's scream in it when Duke hits the water. I can't hear it, but I haven't used headphones yet either. Have any of you heard the scream?

I have also heard that story, and tried hard to hear it myself, even turning the volume up real loud, and I have never heard it. I wonder if somehow they were able to remove that sound when the movie was transferred to VHS and now to DVD.

I'm also curious about the scream. I'll watch it soon again and I if I hear the scream I'll post it.

I've watched this film loads of times and i've never heard the scream JohnChisum but i'll watch it again and pay closer attention to see if i can hear anything

According to IMDB the scream can be heard.
When John Wayne is dragged into the river, you can hear a child calling out, "Dad!". This was his three-year-old son Ethan Wayne, who was watching off camera and knew how ill his father was.

Cannot remember If I ever heard a scream. Maybe they really cut it out of the DVD releases.

OK, we watched this movie last night, and we HEARD him yell out "Dad" or maybe even "Daddy"! After the brothers drag Duke in, Ethan doesn't yell out right away, it's when he [Duke] starts to roll onto his front that you can hear it. We played it back about three times, and you really can hear it, IF you are listening for it.

Let us know if YOU hear it now . . .

Chester :newyear:

This topic is really interesting,
I'm going to have to do the same,
and drag the movie out again!

I guess this should increase Ethan's movies that he was in with his Dad up to three.

Big Jake (1971) .... Little Jake McCandles
Rio Lobo (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066301/) (1970) (uncredited)
The Sons of Katie Elder (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059740/) (1965) (uncredited voice) :wink_smile:

Chester :newyear:

I know the music from The Sons of Katie Elder is a favorite of many -

Hyrjh0EDlss

I watched this movie last night with some friends and I had truly forgot how good it is.

One thing regarding this movie that has puzzled me is did the townsfolk including Billy the sheriff know who killed Bass Elder? I get the feeling they did but didn't do anything for fear of retaliation from Hastings. What are your thoughts on this?

:agent:

I think that they knew, esp the sherif had ideas and the mortician seemed like he knew something but i havent watched it in awhile so I cant exactly pin point things to prove this. Just a feeling i had.

Great film... Haven't seen it in about a year. Time to pull out the DVD.

When you watch it, check the dates in the family bible. If you look carefully you see Katie got married in 1850 and died in 1865. So it looks like John Elder was supposed to be around 44-45 and Bud Elder was 18. 26 or 27 years between them which is just about possible

dee

I had the feeling Duke was playing a lot younger here. A great movie though, you'd hardly guess how ill he had been.

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Lobby Card Mexicaine

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Here is something interesting I found a few days ago. Tommy Kirk (Old Yeller, The Shaggy Dog, Swiss Family Robinson) was signed to play in The Sons of Katie Elder (assuming it was the Bud Elder part), but was fired just before production because he was arrested at a party that had pot, and he was under the influence of the drug. The John Wayne Productions found out about it and didn't want that kind of publicity on this, so they canceled his contract. It was probably Michael Wayne who did that.

Just something that might have been a better fit, had Tommy kept out of trouble. He would have been better than Michael Anderson, Jr.

Cheers :cool: Hondo

I've promised this for a long time so here it is: the true story of the REAL Sons of Katie Elder. Warning - this is a complex story, so it's a long post. This is a much shortened version of an article I did for the Ridgway, Colorado Chamber of Commerce.

The Sons of Katie Elder is a western classic. Who can forget the tale of four brothers falsely accused of the murder of a popular sheriff, chained together while fighting off a vicious mob. What is not generally known is that this movie was very loosely based on the story of a real family that later lived near Ridgway, Colorado, where they were well-liked and served as lawmen for many years. Their story reads like fiction, but this tale of courage and gunplay is all true. Their name wasn't Elder, though, it was Marlow

The full story of the Marlow brothers is complex. To get the full story, read The Marlow Brothers' Texas Ordeal and Life in Ouray County, by Jim Pettengill, in the Ouray County Historical Society Journal Vol. 4, available online from Mount Sneffels Press at www.mtsneffelspress.com (http://www.mtsneffelspress.com); Life of the Marlows: A True Story of Frontier Life of Early Days, Revised by William Rathmell, reprinted recently (2004) by University of North Texas Press; and The Fighting Marlows: Men Who Wouldn't be Lynched, by Glenn Shirley, Texas Christian Press 1994.

This is still a controversial subject, and you are likely to get different versions of the story depending on where you ask. The following is as accurate as I can determine from the available publications, information from the family, and newspaper accounts of the day.

In 1888 the Marlow family was living in Indian Territory - present-day Oklahoma. There were five brothers: George, Charley, Alfred (Alf), Boone and Llewellyn (Epp), and their mother, Martha Jane Marlow. While George was visiting his friend "Doc" Shores, sheriff of Gunnison County in Colorado, the other brothers worked on Oklahoma ranches. One day in September they were arrested by a Deputy US Marshall from Texas named Ed Johnson on false charges of stealing horses near Trinidad, Colorado and taken to jail in Graham, Texas for trial. When George returned, he took his mother and his brother's families to Texas to seek his brothers' release.

When they arrived in Graham, George was also arrested. The brothers were eventually released on bail, and went to work on a nearby ranch as they awaited their day in court. One day the local sheriff, who was friendly to the Marlows, and his deputy arrived at the Marlows' rented cabin with an arrest warrant for Boone, who had killed a cowboy in another part of Texas several years previously in self-defense. The deputy entered the Marlow home at dinnertime, drew his pistol and fired a shot at Boone while the rest of the family sat in disbelief. Boone ducked, grabbed his nearby Winchester and fired two shots at the deputy. Both shots missed, but the second shot struck the sheriff, who had just walked into the line of fire from outside.

While the rest of the family cared for the mortally wounded sheriff, Boone fled and Epp was sent to town to bring a doctor. Epp was arrested in town, and when the doctor arrived, the deputy and a posse arrested George, Charley, and Alf as well, even though George and Alf had been a couple of miles away.

Graham, Texas had a reputation for treating prisoners badly, with more than one recent lynching, so the brothers attempted to escape. When they were recaptured, they were chained together by the ankles, two by two, and returned to jail. The next night a mob of about 40 people walked into the jail and tried to take the Marlows out to be lynched. The brothers fought off the mob that night, and the next day the Deputy Marshal was ordered to move them to Fort Worth, where they would be safe and get a fair trial.

That evening Deputy Johnson took his prisoners out to a trio of wagons, which were manned by many members of the previous night's mob. The brothers knew thay would be attacked again. About a mile outside of Graham the wagons stopped and the mob attacked, The brothers jumped out of the wagon, grabbed weapons from their guards and fought back. The battle lasted almost a half hour, and when the mob finally fled the scene, several of the attackers lay dead, Alf and Epp Marlow had been killed, and George and Charley had both been seriously wounded. To make their escape, George and Charley had to cut the feet off their dead brothers to remove their leg irons.

They returned to the family cabin and held off a posse from Graham, declaring that they would surrender to the regional US Marshall and no one else. The marshal came and took the wounded brothers to Fort Worth.

The members of the mob were arrested and charged with murder. George and Charley were tried and acquitted. Once they were free, they headed to southwestern Colorado in 1889 where George had made friends, and settled outside the new town of Ridgway in Ouray County.

They quickly proved to be hard-working and popular citizens. When two Texas Rangers came to town in 1890 with a warrant to take Charley back to Graham for another trial related to the murder of the sheriff, a large crowd gathered and told the Rangers that it would take 2000 Rangers to arrest the Marlows. Unknown to the Ridgway folks, these were not just any rangers - they were Captain William MacDonald and Sergeant A. J. Brittan, the two top Rangers in West Texas. MacDonald became one of the four most famous Rangers in history, the man who inspired the phrases "One riot, one ranger", and "He would charge Hell with a bucket of water". The governors of Colorado and Texas got involved and determined that the Marlows were important witnesses in the trial of the mob and were outside of the Rangers' jurisdiction. the Rangers went home empty handed.

In 1892 Ouray Judge William Rathmell ghost-wrote a book of the brother's adventures. George and Charley became highly respected, and both served as lawmen in Ouray County until the early days of the 20th Century, as Ridgway town marshalls, Deputy County Sheriffs, and Deputy US Marshalls.They served on the school board and George joined the local Elks lodge. In 1905 they bought a large ranch 10 miles north of Ridgway, which is now part of the Billie Creek Special Wildlife Area, administered by the Department of Wildlife. Martha Jane Marlow is buried on the ranch, and some structures remain.

George and Charley both had large families, and many descendants still live in western Colorado. Both men lived well into their eighties and were remembered at their deaths as gentle, caring members of the community.

In the 1950s, a Hollywod scriptwriter discovered a copy of Rathmell's book in a used book store and paid the descendants for the film rights to the brothers' remarkable story. Several years later it became the basis for The Sons of Katie Elder.

Artifacts form the Marlow family are on display at the Ouray County Historical Museum, and at the Museum of the Mountain West in nearby Montrose, Colorado.

Brilliant post Jim and many thanks

Outstanding post! Never mind the "print the legend" philosophy, I would like to see a movie made from those facts. I always have enjoyed "Katie Elder" - it's a relaxed, genial and well made film - but never knew it was based on any historical incident or family.
Here's hoping that Hollywood picks up on this one.


We deal in lead, friend.

My sister was a big fan of Earl Holliman. I gave her the sound track album for Xmas long ago. It has a theme song by Johnny Cash not heard in the film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fpytmVq4UA

Quite a few films from that era had theme songs that weren't used in the film itself. Besides Katie, there were "The Comancheros", "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance", "Rio Conchos" and "The Guns of Navarone".
I blame the whole song thing on Dimitri Tiomkin and the success of "High Noon". However, if it weren't for that film, we wouldn't have "Gunfight at the OK Corral", "The Green Leaves of Summer" and "The War Wagon".



We deal in lead, friend.

Great post now that would make an interesting western.

"The Sons of Katie Elder". Love that ax handle!




We deal in lead, friend.

"The Sons Of Katie Elder" (1965)
-John Wayne

Plot: IMDB
The Elder boys return to Clearwater, Texas for their Mother's funeral. John the eldest is a well known gunfighter and trouble follows him wherever he goes. The boys try to get back their ranch from the towns gunsmith who won it from their father in a card game with which he was shortly murdered there after but not before getting through the troubles that come with the Elders name.

Phantom's Review: One of Wayne's best 1960's westerns. Good acting, great story, plenty of action, some nice doses of humor and solidly directed by Henry Hathaway. Highly enjoyable for fans of the western genre.

"The Sons of Katie Elder". Love that ax handle!




We deal in lead, friend.


I awoke to that on AMC this morn too.

I have to agree with a lot of the posts here, a good, solid western, great way to pass a few hours

I clumbed Pikes Peak .... you did what to Pikes Peak ?????

George Kennedy plays a great baddie dont you think ?

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DULL Thats the best word i can use to describe this movie. seem to drag, didn't care for the story. One of the very few he made in the sixties that is not in my collection.

Could never find it dull myself-so many memorable lines and scenes. One of my faves-

Love the scene where Duke smashes George Kennedy in the mouth. . . Classic Duke!!!:wink_smile: