RED RIVER

PRODUCED AND DIRECTED BY HOWARD HAWKS
MUSIC BY DIMITRI TIOMKIN
MONTERY PRODUCTIONS
UNITED ARSTISTS

319320

INFORMATION FROM IMDb

Plot Summary

Tom Dunson builds a cattle empire with his adopted son Matthew Garth.
Together they begin a massive cattle drive north from Texas to the Missouri railhead.
But on the way, new information and Dunson's tyrannical ways cause Matthew to take the herd away from Dunson
and head to a new railhead in Kansas. Dunson, swearing vengeance, pursues.

Summary written by Jim Beaver

Writing credits
Borden Chase (story The Chisholm Trail)

Borden Chase (screenplay) &
Charles Schnee (screenplay)

Full Cast

John Wayne .... Thomas Dunson
Montgomery Clift .... Matthew 'Matt' Garth
Joanne Dru .... Tess Millay
Walter Brennan .... 'Groot' Nadine
Coleen Gray .... Fen
Harry Carey .... Mr. Melville (as Harry Carey Sr.)
John Ireland .... Cherry Valance
Noah Beery Jr. .... Buster McGee
Harry Carey Jr. .... Dan Latimer
Chief Yowlachie .... Quo (as Chief Yowlatchie)
Paul Fix .... Teeler Yacey
Hank Worden .... Simms Reeves
Mickey Kuhn .... Matt, as a boy
Ray Hyke .... Walt Jergens
Wally Wales .... Old Leather (as Hal Talliaferro)
Lane Chandler .... Colonel (uncredited)
Davison Clark .... Mr. Meeker (uncredited)
Harry Cording .... Gambler (uncredited)
Richard Farnsworth .... Dunston Rider (uncredited)
Paul Fierro .... Fernandez (uncredited)
George Lloyd .... Rider with Mr. Melville (uncredited)
Pierce Lyden .... Colonel's Trail Boss (uncredited)
John Merton .... Settler (uncredited)
Ivan Parry .... Bunk Kenneally (uncredited)
Lee Phelps .... Gambler (uncredited)
William Self .... Wounded Wrangler (uncredited)
Glenn Strange .... Naylor (uncredited)
Tom Tyler .... The Quitter (uncredited)
Dan White .... Laredo (uncredited)
Shelley Winters .... Dance Hall Girl in Wagon Train (uncredited)

Stunts

Richard Farnsworth .... stunts (uncredited)
Ben Johnson .... stunts (uncredited)
Fred Kennedy .... stunts (uncredited)
Danny Sands .... stunts (uncredited)
Jack Williams .... stunts (uncredited)


Trivia

* Filmed in 1946 but held for release for two years, in part due to legal problems with Howard Hughes,
who claimed it was similar to his The Outlaw (1943).

* Filmed in 1946, not released until 1948.

* Texas Longhorn cattle had been nearly extinct as a breed for about 50 years when this film was made.
Only a few dozen animals were available. In the herd scenes most of the cattle are Hereford crosses
with the precious Longhorns prominently placed in crucial scenes.

* This film was selected to the National Film Registry, Library of Congress, in 1990.

* The theme song, "Settle Down" was later used under the title "My Rifle, My Pony and Me" in Rio Bravo (1959),
another John Wayne western.

Filming Locations

Elgin, Arizona, USA

Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

Samuel Goldwyn/Warner Hollywood Studios - 1041 N. Formosa Ave., Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, USA
(studio)

San Pedro River, Arizona, USA

Tucson, Arizona, USA

Whetstone Mountains, Arizona, USA

Goofs

* Errors in geography: In the scene where the cattle drive north crosses the Red River,
the river is shown flowing east to west when it should be west to east.

* Anachronisms: The film is set in 1865 yet several Colt Model 1873 SAA revolvers are seen which were not available until later.

* Anachronisms: When they are driving the cattle and go to the aid of the wagon train,
a communications mast can be seen on the hill in the background of one shot of the five horsemen.
The next shot is a closer view of one rider and the mast can be seen even more clearly.

* Factual errors: The film gives 14 August 1865 as the completion of the first cattle drive on the Chisholm Trail.
However, the first cattle drive on the Chisholm Trail started and finished in 1867, two years later.

* Crew or equipment visible: An equipment shadow tracks across the wagon as the camera pans from Groot to Dunson
during their first night on guard at Red River.

* Continuity: During the cattle stampede, Dunson, Matt and the other cowboys saddle up and try to turn the herd.
Process shots of each cowboys are inserted in the scene. Every cowboy is riding the same dummy horse and saddle with a very large Mexican saddlehorn.

* Continuity: Inside the tent, during Tom and Tess's conversation, the lamp hanging between them changes positions and disappears between shots.

* Continuity: Near the end of the film, when Tom walks toward Matt, his shadow changes repeatedly from one shot to another.

* There was some concern that John Wayne and Montgomery Clift would not get along since they were diametrically opposed on most political issues,
and both were outspoken on their views. According to legend they agreed not to discuss politics and the shooting went smoothly.

* Five dams were built to bring the San Pedro River in Arizona, where the crossings were shot, to flood stage.

Hi,
This film is right up there in the Top 5, all time greats.
I rate this film very highly, and Duke, mastered the part
of the brooding, moody, Dunson with great skill.
Although, ,critics thought the casting of Clift, was lightweight,
however, Montgomery acquitted himself well.
When Duke met Montgomery for the first time, he asked Howard,

Howard, do you think, you can get anything going, between, that kid and myself? I don't think we can make a fight. That kid isn't going to be able, to stand up to me

Montgomery apparently got up at, 5 in the morning, worked hard with the wranglers,
before the days shooting begun.
Duke was so impressed, with his determination, he taught him how to use a gun, throw punches etc..
Montgomery responded to Duke's power, and their different approaches
blended brilliantly..
Montgomery was much shorter than Duke so,to make the climatic fight, more balanced, he had Dunson, shot in the leg!!
With a great support cast, including the brilliant Walter Brennan,
and Joanne Dru, the film was destined to be, more than good.
John Ford, said that in this the film, John Wayne became an actor,
he was right, but it also goes to prove, that it just wasn't Ford,
who got the best out of Duke!
Duke at this time credited Hawks, has being the second great
influence, in his life.
Rating 10/10

Below is a great web-site,

RED RIVER ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Here is a little picture story of "Red River" that some of you might like. :rolleyes:


RED RIVER ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Chilibill :cowboy:

Memorable Quotes

Thomas Dunson: Who are you?
Cherry Valance: Some call me one thing, some another.
Thomas Dunson: What do they call you most?
Cherry Valance: By my name. Cherry Valance.

Nadine Groot: Never liked seeing strangers. Maybe it's because no stranger ever good newsed me.

Cherry: There are only two things more beautiful than a gun: a Swiss watch or a woman from anywhere..
Ever had a good... Swiss watch?

Sims Reeves: Plantin' and readin', plantin' and readin'. Fill a man full o' lead, stick him in the ground an' then read words on him.
Why, when you've killed a man, why try to read the Lord in as a partner on the job?

Sims Reeves: Well, I don't like to see things goin' good or bad. I like 'em in between
.
Thomas Dunson: Take 'em to Missouri, Matt!

Thomas Dunson: Cherry was right. You're soft, you should have let 'em kill me, 'cause I'm gonna kill you.
I'll catch up with ya. I don't know when, but I'll catch up. Every time you turn around,
expect to see me, 'cause one time you'll turn around and I'll be there.
I'm gonna kill ya, Matt.

Thomas Dunson: We brought nothing into this world and it's certain we can carry nothing out.

Tess Millay: Whoever would have thought that you two could have killed each other.

Mr. Melville: I'll buy the drinks when it's over.

Cherry Valance: You're fast with that gun, Matt. Awful fast. But your heart's soft. Too soft. Might get you hurt some day.
Matt Garth: Could be. I wouldn't count on it.

Nadine Groot: He didn't know about money, Matt. He never had none. He didn't know what to do.
Matt Garth: You mean he just doesn't know who to fight.
Nadine Groot: Yeah.
Matt Garth: Well that's all right.

Mr. Melville: There's three times in a man's life when he has a right to yell at the moon:
when he marries, when his children come, and... and when he finishes a job he had to be crazy to start.

Matt, as a boy: How did you know when he was gonna draw?
Thomas Dunson: By watching his eyes. Remember that.
Matt, as a boy: I will.
Thomas Dunson: Get a shovel and my Bible. I'll read over him.

[Dunson plans to take Don Diego's land from him]
Fernandez: Others have thought as you, señor. Others have tried.
Thomas Dunson: And you've always been good enough to stop them?
Fernandez: Amigo, it is my work.
Thomas Dunson: Pretty unhealthy job.

Thomas Dunson: Give me ten years, and I'll have that brand on the gates of the greatest ranch in Texas.
The big house will be down by the river, and the corrals and the barns behind it. It'll be a good place to live in.
Ten years and I'll have the Red River D on more cattle than you've looked at anywhere.
I'll have that brand on enough beef to feed the whole country. Good beef for hungry people.
Beef to make 'em strong, make 'em grow. But it takes work, and it takes sweat, and it takes time, lots of time. It takes years.

[Groot loses his false teeth to Quo in a poker game]
Groot Nadine: Now wait a minute, Quo. You really ain't gonna take a man's only set of teeth, are you?
Quo: Uh huh.
Groot Nadine: Yeah, but I gotta use 'em for eating!
Quo: Come grub, you get 'em.
Groot Nadine: What are you gonna do with 'em.
Quo: My name now Two Jaw Quo.
Groot Nadine: Two Jaw Quo. That's what I get for playing with an injun.

[Groot complains about the dust]
Groot Nadine: Bet I ate ten pounds in the last sixteen days. Before this shenanigan is over,
I'll probably eat enough land to incorporate me in the Union. The state of Groot.

Teeler Yancy: I shouldn't have run away. I should have stayed and put a bullet in you. I signed a pledge,
sure, but you ain't the man I signed it with.
Thomas Dunson: You finished?
Teeler Yancy: Yeah, now you can get your Bible and read over us after you shoot us.

Matthew Garth: Buster, where's Cherry?
Buster McGee: Cherry? Well he figured there was no need two of us coming. One was . . .
Matthew Garth: Is she pretty?
Buster McGee: Oh, Matt, do you remember that little filly I used to own?
Matthew Garth: That's what I thought.

[first title cards]
Title crawl: Among the annals of the great state of Texas may be found the story of the first drive on the famous Chisholm Trail.
A story of one of the great cattle herds of the world, of a man and a boy - Thomas Dunson and Matthew Garth,
the story of the Red River D.
Title crawl: [handwritten pages] Early Tales of Texas
Title crawl: In the year 1851, Thomas Dunson accompaned by a friend, Nadine Groot,
left St. Louis and joined a wagon train headed for California.
Three weeks on the trail found them near the northern border of Texas.
The land to the south looked good to.
..
[last lines]
Thomas Dunson: When we get back to the ranch, I want you to change the brand.
It'll be like this: The Red River D, and we'll add an M to it. You don't mind that, do you?
Matt Garth: No.
Thomas Dunson: You earned it.

INFORMATION IMDb

Just a little trivia for you, Keith. Joanne Dru is the sister of Peter Marshall, the original host of Hollywood Squares. In fact, the family name is Lacock. Peters son Pete Lacock played pro baseball for the KC Royals back in the early 80's.

Hi

Besides being my second favourite John Wayne picture imo it has to be considered as among the pivotal films in John Waynes career up with Stagecoach, The Quiet Man and the Searchers.

After seeing Wayne perform as Thomas Dunsen it brought forth the comment from John Ford "I didn't know the sonofabitch could act",

After ignoring him for a couple of years in favour of Henry Fonda Ford brought him back for Fort Apache She Wore A Yellow Ribbon Three Godfathers and Rio Grande all of these leading on quite nicely to the Quiet Man.

Regards

Arthur

Sheer Brilliance a real gem of a movie and in my opinion the best of the Hawk collaborations.

On a trivia note as well as the black & white version on DVD I also have a colorised version on video. Normally, I would say avoid the colorised version like the plague but for once it is quite pleasing on the eye and quality is okay/good for watching on TV. I havent tried it via projection system so I must give it as test there.


Mike

Hi

I agree, I have the original film, The directors cut on VHS and took the colourised version off of the television.

Like you I normally hate colourised versions but Red river and The Longest Day I think looked great in colour.

Many think that Red River is based on Mutiny on the Bounty and if you look at it there is a comparison.

Regards

Arthur

Hi,
Here's an interesting quote from Duke,
and his comments, regarding the movie:-
Stagecoach, established me as a star,
Red River established me as an actor.
My problem after Stagecoach, was I had to go back to Republic to make more standard westerns for them.Then all the critcs and know-it-alls jumped on my back, and said Wayne,was no good without Ford.
The character I played, was a direct steal from Captain Bligh, in Mutiny on the Bounty,but when I played that, I believed in my character, really believed everything he did was right.
As a consequence, he didn't come off as a heavy.
Originally the part was an old man, that falls apart, crying and getting all scared and cowardly, then the kid takes over...Hawks wanted to make me, a blustering coward in this role,
"You can win an Academy Award", he said...But I knew, that as a man gains more strength of character and more position in life, he gets straighter backed, and carries himself with a sort of nobility.
So I played it, as a strong man, who was scared.
After all, as a man, you can be scared, but you can't be a coward.

Hi,
I have been researching all the threads, back to the start of the JWMB,
looking for previous discussion, relating to the movies.
I have found the following, comments, and have copied them here,
so that they are now under one forum:-

Critic Time: Red River, lets be critics

JWfan*
post Jan 19 2004, 03:36 PM

about Red River I dont remember everything about the movie because I saw the movie for the last time when I was 4 years old.

I can only remember myself the indian attack so I will add that as my favourite scene, I know that much critics think that this is the best western ever, I dont know until I have seen the complete movie.

my vote:*****

what is your review about the movie, and dont forget to add your favourite scene because some of you were forgotten that in the other topic about The man who shot Liberty Valance.

cya,
JWfan
arthurarnell*
post Jan 19 2004, 04:34 PM

Hi JWfan

You have hit the right topic Red River is my favourite western by John Wayne or any other cowboy star, and I' d bet a penny to a pound that a lot of people will say the same.

My favourite scene is from the beginning of the picture to the end, but if pushed the scene of the cows and drovers assembled in the half light of daybreak while Dunson says quietly to Matt "Lets take em to Missouri Matt" then the resulting yells as each man is shown urging himself forward whistles and then the sweeping music of Tiomkins extravagance. If I could have moved the chair I'd have joined the drive myself.

The scene was later repeated in 'City Slickers

Some people say that the music spoiled the film, for me it made it and this is one reason that I went out and bought the CD a couple of weeks before Christmas.

Other facts about the film.

Some say that the main theme of the picture is the rivalry between John Wayne and Montgomery Clift and is the same as between Captain Bligh and Fletcher Christian and that Red River is a remake of 'Mutiny on the Bounty. And as Christian takes the Bounty away from Bligh so Garth takes the herd away from Dunson. I think it is a good comparison

Howard Hawks changed the ending of the film and although Wayne was wounded at the end of the picture he survived for a reconcilliation rather than die on the way back to Texas as Dunson did in the original story.

One other fact that probably everyone is aware was during the making of the picture Howard Hawks had a number of silver belt buckles made depicting the Red River D which he gave to the leading players.
At the end of the picture Duke and Hawks swopped Buckles. Hawks later lost his but John Wayne obviously treasured his and ever after the one he wore had the initials HH on it.

My score for the picture

Best Regards
Arthur
A Girl Named Jen*
post Jan 20 2004, 01:53 PM


Every favorite scene would probably have to be when Duke strolls into Abilene with his band of mercenaries lusting after revenge toward Matt. Love the way he strides toward the camera lookin' so big and so mean - the way the sea of cattle parts for him and the way the action is underscored by the music. Wow! I could watch that again and again and again and...
General Sterling Price*
post Jan 27 2004, 04:35 AM

I just watched Red River last weekend. I would have to say my favorite is when Groot throws the unarmed Dunson a rifle from his seat on the chuck wagon, and Dunson drops the three quitters when they draw, and then shouts "anyone else want some of it?" I also like the scene where the guy in the food line complains about the coffee and says how he is going to tell Dunson...and is cut off as Dunson enters the screen grabs some coffee, downs it, and asks what he wanted to say to Dunson.

The only drawback to the film, is the woman Matt goes for. I cannot stand her any more that Howard Hawk's use of Angie Dickenson in Rio Bravo. The senseless chatter and unrealistic babble hurts both of these films in my opinion.

GSP
SXViper
post Jan 27 2004, 05:29 AM

Not to get into a discussion about Rio Bravo but, I would much rather look at and listen too a younger Angie then the older one. She was actually really nice looking in Rio Bravo.
Robbie
post Jan 27 2004, 10:36 AM

Red River like the searchers is one of the greatest movies of all times. It focuses on a character called Tom Dunson whom gradually changes because of events as his life progresses. At the beginning Tom is a tough but reasonably clean cut hero and there is a truly superb scene in which Tom says goodbye to his girl with music increasing the atmosphere and heightening the dialogue. His reaction to his girl getting killed shows great depth in Dukes acting as he looks at the wagons burning and knows he is helpless to do anything, and a magnificent Indian attack on Dukes wagon follows which results in the realisation that his girl is dead. There are far too many great scenes in Red River to name them all hear it really is an unique experience watching this movie. Hawks uses symbols to heighten the reality when Dunson starts to become the villain at the funeral scene a dark cloud descends. At the beginning Duke wears a white hat to symbolise that he is the good guy but as the movie progresses that colour changes to black. The fight at the end parallels the 1st meeting between Dunson and Matt at this meeting Tom hit Matt and the hits sound like slaps symbolising he is a boy at the end when Dunson hits Matt the hits sound like punches symbolising that Matt has turned into a man. Reoccurring themes appear throughout Red River such as Contracts. the snake bracelet, leaving the girl behind and taking guns away from Matt that add to the movie and show how coherent it is. Dukes acting is superb completely faultless and it is arguably better than Ethan Edwards but I'm personally torn on deciding which one is the best. Whats great about Hawks is that there are no silly characters within his movie every character in this movie is both realistic and essential to the storyline what more they add depth to the quality and detail of the movie. From watching this movie you really do get a true sense of what is must have been like back then, the hardship people had to endure and it really is a tribute to Hawks for being able to successfully translate this to the screen. The dialogue is this movie is authentic, snappy and at times cool with Dunson coming out with some great lines. Despite so many themes in this movie it is about the relationship between father and son and how each need to understand the other and is sublime. In conclusion if ever a movie deserved the title classic Red River does.

"RED RIVER" is one of those movies that I forget just how good it is if I haven’t seen it in a while. Great film; not just one of the best Westerns, but one of the all time best movies. Yeah, the ending is a little corny, but it works (tough, stubborn guys getting put in their place by a tough woman. It happens!) Also, I thought the Cherry Valance character could have had a bigger role like originally intended. But then again it works just as well this way; we know he’s a killer, we know he has a reputation, and I think when he challenges Dunson at the end, he has his own plan going on; but because it’s the cowboy way, he’s not saying what it is- I like it when the filmmaker doesn‘t tell us the whole story ( Like another good filmmaker, Clint Eastwood said, sometimes the best part of the stories are told off screen and in the audience’s minds). Great movie; hope there’s a special edition DVD one of these days.

Originally posted by ZS_Maverick@Jun 29 2006, 03:05 AM
"RED RIVER" is one of those movies that I forget just how good it is if I haven’t seen it in a while.

I second this. For some reason "Rio Bravo" from Hawks/Wayne collaborations usually comes into mind first, and still "Red River" may even be better. Hard to say, both are near perfect. Duke is terrific as Dunson

I'm not sure if I'd rather see an uncompromised, very sad ending where either Dunson or Matt or both would of course die. The problem with the happy ending is that it comes too suddenly, such a quick change of mind doesn't fit especially Dunson's character

Our cable co.(Comcast) is showing "Red River" as a free movie "On Demand".

Hi Harold,

We have a forum for Movies,

Could you post this one here please,

Red River ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Harold; Keith is right go over to the "Red River" Movie Site for just about everything you want to know about the Film "Red River." :D

Chilibill :cowboy:

Originally posted by William T Brooks@Sep 23 2006, 08:14 AM
Harold; Keith is right go over to the "Red River" Movie Site for just about everything you want to know about the Film "Red River." :D

That would be OK, but nobody ever looks there!!!!!!

Originally posted by Harold+Sep 23 2006, 05:43 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harold @ Sep 23 2006, 05:43 PM)</div><!--QuoteBegin-William T Brooks@Sep 23 2006, 08:14 AM

Harold; Keith is right go over to the "Red River" Movie Site for just about everything you want to know about the Film "Red River." :D

That would be OK, but nobody ever looks there!!!!!!
34800
[/b]

Thats not truth! And it is much more convinient to find all materials organized in one place.
:rolleyes:

Well said Vera,

And from the number of posts today alone.
members are finding that, having the movies in one place is beneficial.
Earlier this year it became apparent,
that we couldn't continue, with more and more
fragmentation, with one topic sometimes
spurring a dozen different threads!!!!

For the sake of continuity, a decision had to be made,
to clean up the board, and the Movie Reviews,
and Off topic discussions, areas for improvement.

It is hoped that all members find things clearer,
as we strive to improve things, as we go along.

Best Wishes

Red River was pretty good I think. My wife liked it too. I think it's by far the best Haward Hawks/John Wayne western as its the only one with it's own plot. All the others (Rio Bravo, Rio Lobo, El Dorado) just recycle the same plot and all have practically the exact same final half hour. So this one must be the best western of the bunch, though I like Hatari! better than any of the other Hawks movies.

Rare Poster from,

1462

Keith,

That's a neat poster. Is it a British one? It's different from these, the third of which (the bottom one) is a 1952 re-issue.

Chester :newyear:

Jim, it's hard to tell,
I can't personally remember them,
but they're great posters, all the same!

Hello All

Did the colorised version of this movie ever get produced on DVD?

Mike

In the past I've gone to Amazon.com. and checked the new and used column
to see if, under comments, they indicate it is a colorized version.
I did this with Red River , through 71 vendors to no avail. You might try calling some of those vendors as they would probably know.

Chester :newyear:

Thanks Chester

I have it on video so I may transfer to DVD.

Mike

How old is your colorized vhs? I've had problems of color fade after like ten years.

Chester :newyear:

Hi Chester

I think it was from around 2003. I taped it from TV. It has come out quite well surprisingly. Certainly when showing on TV via DVD it is great. I will giving it an airing via DVD projector later on. I have tweeked connections between VCR and DVD recorder and improved sharpness. I am not a real fan of colorised but that is one of the best transfers I have seen.


Mike

I heard Red River on RadioClassics the other day. Wayne, Dru and Brennen were in it, but Clift was not. Just wondering if anyone else has heard the story on the radio. They cut it down to just one hour.

Hi

I have a copy of the colourised version of Red River and agree its one of the best of it's type.

I also have the Radio version of Red River with Jeff Chandler playing the Clift role.

My next project is to put the photograps from the film on here.

Heres a taster:

regards

Arthur

Hi


Shortly after Groot and Dunson leave the wagon train they seek smoke coming from the train and that night they are attacked by indians. The next morning Matthew Garth comes out of the trees the only survivor of the wagon train massacre.
Dunson and Groot take the young lad with them.



Regards


Arthur

Hi


For many days the party travelled south through Texas, they went through country were people thought a good herd of cattle good be raised but Tom Dunson always seemed to find something wrong.

Finally after many days of weary travelling they came to a spot where the land looked good. All day Dunson had been getting off of his horse and feeling and smelling the grass. Suddenly he said' "This is it. This is where we start growing good beef".






Regards


Arthur

Hi

The Civil war has ended and texas is starving and broke Dunson's herd is one of the largest in the state and he decides to take them on a thousand mile cattle drive to Missouri.


Regards


Arthur

Hi

Driving the herd and cowboys alike Dunson acts like a man possessed allowing no man to quit he watches over the group relentlessly'


regards

Arthur

Hi

Following the herd stampeding when the reckless actions of Kennally a young cowboy causes the death of Dan Latimer (Harry Carey jr). Dunson decides to punish him by whipping him. In an attempt to stop him Kunnelly goes for his gun, but it is Mat who draws first and wounds the young cowboy. Later Dunson asked Matt why he had intervened?

"Because you would have shot him between the eyes.
"Just as sure as your standing there" growled Dunson.





Regards

Arthur

Hi

On the way to Missouri a young cowboy named Suter (William Self) rides into the camp he tell Dunson that he was with a cattle herd that had been attacked by Missouri border raiders and after an attempt to lynch him had failed he had managed to escape with his life.

Suter also reveals that an indian trader named Chisum had told them that there was a shorter trail to Abilene where there was a railroad.

The existence of a shorter safer route and Dunson's refusal to even consider changing his mind, leads the trail herders into open revolt in gunfight two are killed and Dunson is wounded in the leg.

The next morning they find that three more have deserted during the night and Cherry Valance (John Ireland) is ordered to take another man and bring them back.



Regards


Arthur

Hi

Two days later Cherry returns with Larado (Dan White) and Teeler (Paul Fix) the deserters.
Dunson growled at them
"You two! ou signed on for the drive. You signed on to finish it. You stole beans and flour and cartidges. besides being deserters on what you sign, your'e common thieves."
"The Law might see it different" said Larado.
"I'm the law" snapped Dunson. "I say you two are thieves.Anything more to say either of you?"
Teeler spoke.
"I know what you're going to do with us, but first I want to tell you something
"Go ahead" said Dunson.
"You're crazy you've been drinking and you havent been sleeping, and if your not crazy you're only a skins thickness away from it".
"Have you finished?" growled Dunson.
Teeler was defiant
"No I haven't. You want to get this herd to market? Well so do all of us. We've anted to all of the time. That's why we came. But why not take it to Abeline? But you won't listen to that. You want to drive them to Missouri although everything is against you getting them there".
Dunson attempted to speak but Teeler wasn't done.
"I've not finished yet. We've had to listen to your views more than long enough. Now you can listen to me. You mean to go to Missouri. You'll get there even if it means losing every head of cattle. But this herd doesn't only just belong to you it belongs to every hungry person in the state. I know I shouldn't have run away; I should have stayed and put a bullet in you. I signed a pledge sure. But you're no longer the man I signed it with".
"Have you finished?"
Teeler nodded.
I'm going to hang you," Dunson announced.
"I'm going to hang you two"
"No you're not2, came a slow but steady answer.
"What" cried Dunson.
"You are not going to hang them" Matt said quietly and firmly.
"Who'll stop me?"
"I will"
As the two men faced each other teeler went for his gun only to have it shot out of his hand by Matt.
Turning to the men Matt said.
"Do you want to finish the drive Teeler?"
"Where are we going?"
"Abilene"
"Whose heading the drive?" asked the men.
"I am" Matt replied.
"What about Dunson?"
"He stays here. We're taking the herd. it's the only thing to be done.*

* Extract taken from The Boys Cinema Annual 1950.

Regards

Arthur

Hi

I've just made a muck up of this post please bear with me.

Hi



Matt steals the herd from Dunson.

Regards

Arthur

Hi

Still mucking it up however we'll go on

Matt went to Nadine

H
"How about you Groot?"
"You were wron Mr Dunson. I've been with you plenty of years and up till now right or wrong, I've always done what you say. Got to be kind of a habit with me. I guess - so thats why I'm staying with you."

"Go with them for all I care" snapped Dunson.

"Thanks for making it easy" answered Groot
"All right Matt I'm coming with you.

Regards

Arthur

Hi

Back on track more later

Regards

Arthur

Hi

Before leaving with the herd Matt came across to Dunson making sure he had enough food to get back to Texas.
"If there's any chance at all we'll get your herd to Abilene."
"You should have let Teeler kill me" said Dunson.
"Because now I'm left alive I'm going to kill you. I'll catch up with you. Every time you turn around expect to see me - because one time you'll turn around and I will be there. Then I'll kill you Matt.

Regards

Arthur

Hi

With Dunson returning to Texas hell bent on getting enough men together to get his revenge on Matt. The herd moved on.

Soon they discovered a wagon train under attack by Indians and going to the rescue Matt meets Tess Millay (Joanne Dru) in quite dramatic fashion as watched by Cherry Valance (John Ireland) he remove an arrow from her shoulder.


Regards

Arthur

Hi

Now deeply in love with Tess before resuming his journey with the herd to Abilene Matt gives Tess the bracelet that years before Dunson had given to Fen and had later recovered off of a dead indian.

Days later Dunson catches up with the wagon train and finds out that Matt isn't far in front. Talking to Tess Dunson offers to marry her if she will give him a son. He then notices that she is wearing the bracelett that he gave to Matt.

Regards

Arthur

Hi

As the herd moves on day after day the drovers begin to think that Abilene is a myth, when suddenly they hear a train whistle and then discover railroad tracks. Matt asks the driver the way to Abilene and is told to just follow the tracks.

Finally the herd reach the outskirts of the town where they are met by Melville (Harry Carey sr) the representative of an Illinois Cattle Company, who tells matt to drive the herd straight through the town to the cattle pens.

Regards


Arthur

Hi

The next morning Mellville tells Matt that he will buy the whole herd for top dollar and gives him a cheque made out to Tom Dunson.


Regards

Arthur

Hi

As matt is receiving his payment Dunson true to his word, arrives in Abilene moving slowly he approaches the crowd. Cherry gets in his way and tries to stop Dunson. Drawing he wounds Tom but is also shot and fails to stop Dunson approaching Matt.


Regards


Arthur

Hi

As Dunson approach Matt he dares him to draw and when Matt refuses he starts to hit him, At first Matt refuses to retaliate but finally responds and the two men engage in a fist fight. Tess finally realising that the two men are to fond of each other to kill either one, grabs Simms Reeves (Hank Worden) gun and stops the fight.

Regards

Arthur

Hi


Dunson and Matt both now beaten and dishevelled lean against each other. After getting his breath back Tom tell Matt that he should marry Tess. he also promises that when they get back home he will alter the Red River D brand to include Matt.

Regards

Arthur

Note the one B&W pic above of Matt & Tess from the message 4/6/07, where she is wearing her undergarments & he has the bullet scar across face; does that mean that scenes shot after the fight?

Hi

Before leaving with the herd Matt came across to Dunson making sure he had enough food to get back to Texas.
"If there's any chance at all we'll get your herd to Abilene."
"You should have let Teeler kill me" said Dunson.
"Because now I'm left alive I'm going to kill you. I'll catch up with you. Every time you turn around expect to see me - because one time you'll turn around and I will be there. Then I'll kill you Matt.

Regards

Arthur

Hi Arthur

In relation to that famous speech by Dunson the actual dialogue is as follows:

'Cherry was right your soft. You should have let em kill me because I'm goen kill you, every time you turn around expect to see me, because one time you'll turn around and I'll be there, I'm goen to kill ya Matt.

:agent:

If you have never seen this movie, then here is what you are missing.....


2iPOQL547go

Thanks for the clip, gt. What are the maximum minutes of movie you can post on Youtube? I'm thinking some of our members with rare JW movies could upload them on Youtube, then they could be posted under the respective title in the Movies forum. It would be better to have the whole movie there, if possible.


Chester :newyear:

Great Clip GT. Classic Movie Yeah:shades_smile:

Mike

"Red River" was One of Duke's Finest Films. Here is a Picture Story that I had Put up Here some time Back but you might like to see it again?
:hyper:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Chilibill
:cowboy:

Is it me or does this ending seem to betray the entire movie?

I'd love to hear your opinions, thanks

Hi Parish,

Thanks for your post,
for the benefit of continuity,
I have merged your post,
into the dedicated 'Red River' thread.
Feel free, to browse through the thread,
where I believe your point has been discussed.

Thanks and I do see that this is ground already covered here.

The ending, for me kinda diluts the whole movie. John Wayne's brilliant portrayal of a man descending into madness from greed and betrayal is completely diffused by the "awwshucks, love ya man" closer. I thought it would have been better if his obsessions ultimately killed his character.

Hello Parish,

In the book by Alan Le May, that is exactly how it ended. He died in the charge on the village trying to kill who he thought was little Debbie. You're right, that is the way the story should end, but I guess they wanted to end the movie on a higher note. I recommend the book, it is a great read.

Mark

Thanks for that suggestion, I will look it up at the library :thumbs_up: . The movie's sudden turn around felt very forced to me. Like they were running out of film and they wanted to wrap it up on a nice note. Why must almost every movie HAVE to have a happy ending? I mean even Disney killed off alot of parents in the beginning of some of their classics so why not try this formula in a mean western! :wink_smile:

Are most JW movies based on prior books?

Hello Parish,

In the book by Alan Le May, that is exactly how it ended. He died in the charge on the village trying to kill who he thought was little Debbie. You're right, that is the way the story should end, but I guess they wanted to end the movie on a higher note. I recommend the book, it is a great read.

Mark

This is The Searchers you are referring to.:wink_smile:

I think Hawks original idea was for John Wayne's character to die in Red River but either he or more likely studio changed the ending.

It is a bit of a cop out but really would you have wanted to leave the cinema with poor John Wayne dead:cry2:

It is amazing that his best roles apart from playing with octopuses he always ended up dead. The Shootist, The Cowboys, Sands of Iwo Jima and if original stories had been followed he would have died in The Searchers and Red River:ohmy:

Thank the Lord he lived in True Grit although the way the book is written Mattie Ross
is "not long for this world"


Mike

Hello DukePilgrim,

Did you mean that Rooster wasn't long for this world? In the book, Mattie lived to be an old spinster. She tried to keep up with Rooster's exploits through the years and when she finally heard he would be near as part of Wild West Show with Cole Younger and Frank James, she went to see him. She was told he died a few towns back, so she had him interred and brought back to her farm and burried in the plot with her family.:cry2:

I liked the movie ending better :teeth_smile:

Mark

Yes dukefan1 it was the other way round.

The ending of True Grit was much better than the book. It was the ideal role for John Wayne at that time in his life. Wasnt there some thought of George C Scott playing Rooster before the role was offered to Duke?

Mike

From what I've read, John Wayne wanted the movie rights to the book but was out-bid by Hal Wallace. He was upset about not getting it for he felt he was meant for the role. Wouldn't you know it, so did Wallace. Hal bought the rights knowing he wanted Duke to play the roll. So it worked out just fine.

Mark

Yes, and watching Duke hop that fence at the end of the movie, still moves me.

Chester :newyear:

This is The Searchers you are referring to.:wink_smile:

Mike

Ya know something? I just now caught on to what you were refering to, DukePilgrim. I totally took this "Red River " thread over by mistaking the movie (thinking of The Searchers) and went off topic into True Grit. :hyper:

I am sorry, ethanedwards, for muddying up the post and not talking about Red River. Allow me to rectify that. In the book Red River, Tom Dunston does die also. But they changed the ending in the movie to make it a Hollywood happy ending. :teeth_smile:

I thought like Parrish did, that the change in Tom was too drastic to be believable. But it still is a great movie regardless.

And yes, Parrish, alot of his movies are from books and short stories. If you go through the "A Definite List Of Jw Books" thread that is stickied (Here's the link [Only registered and activated users can see links] ), you will see quite a few of them. I love collecting and reading these books just to see how they varried from the movie. Some stay relatively the same and others are way different.

Mark

I took the pups for a stroll over the weekend to Little Boquillas Ranch. It's on the San Pedro River, near Fairbank, Contention City and Tombstone, AZ. A fair amount of "Red River" was filmed there. I'll tell ya, not a lot has changed, except the size of the trees. Well, that, and, sorry to disappoint, it's in color.

Living here is great, I get to visit such places often. If anyone wants pics or info, whatever, of such things in my area, let me know, I'll see what I can do.

Another of my Duke favourites, he should have won an oscar for his performance

On the other hand I thought Montgomery Clift was very weak, I found it irratating him keep touching his nose all the time

Here is an example of the book. A very good read. Enjoy!

Mark

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

very powerful storey with first time viewers wondering what comes next up to the end.

Mr Wayne could sure do a mean mean

Hi here's the cover for pressbook of Red River.
it is Great .
Taka

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Thanks for posting. How many pages does the pressbook have?

Thanks for posting. How many pages does the pressbook have?
Hi DukePilgrim
I have not this pressbook.
However, because the cover photograph had been found by the Internet,
and it is so wonderfull, i introduced it to you.
Please teach details of pressbook for Red River if there is a person who has this book.

regards,
Taka

There are a number of John Wayne Japanese press books on ebay at the moment that may be of interest to you link attached.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] tem280270914681&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 ([Only registered and activated users can see links] e4686753_[Only registered and activated users can see links] tem280270914681&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

There are a number of John Wayne Japanese press books on ebay at the moment that may be of interest to you link attached.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] tem280270914681&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 ([Only registered and activated users can see links] e4686753_[Only registered and activated users can see links] tem280270914681&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

Thank you posting it.
It was surprised that a Japanese movie pamphlet was exhibited in the auction of Britain.
Who on earth will buy it?