I am new to this group so I hope this topic has not been discussed already. Have you compared the book the Shootist with the movie by the same name and the difference in the characters?

Great Topic Chisum;

I haven't read the book. I have heard that the part Gilliam, played by Ron Howard, shot Duke in the final scene in the back. The movie, the bartender did it in the back. I also heard that in the book, J.B. Books shot Cobb (I think) in the back. Duke was not there when they shot that scene. Books shot Cobb (I think) in the back. Duke was ill at the time.

When Duke came in to shoot his scene, and saw what they have done, he told director Don Siegel that he never shot anyone in the back in any movie and he wasn't going to start now. So, they reshot the scene and Duke shot no one in the back.

That's what I've heard and read in an article (this was a while back, and I don't remember where I read it).

Hondo B)
Duke Head

P.S. Guess what, the movie Chisum is on Turner South right now. What great timing.

Glendon Swarthout's novel is a very well researched gripping western. Miles Swarthout wrote an introduction for the new printing and tells some facts about the film. He states that JW at first didn't like the title and wanted to change it: "He thought the audience might be confused, thinking the picture had something to do with parachuting!" However, it was not written with JW in mind. It was actually offered to Charles Bronson first. But JW had heard about this piece and began lobbying for the role. When JW was signed, they got many actors cheap because word was around town this might be his last one.
The Western Writers of America voted the Shootist as one of the 12 best novels ever. When you read it, it's easy to understand why it caught John Wayne's attention.

In the book, at the end the bartender shoots Books in the back with bird shot. The wound was not life threatening. But JW had been so sick and in so much pain he asked Gillum to kill him. Gillum picks up a gun and points it at the back of Books head and pulls the trigger. The gun doesn't fire because it is empty. Gillum then prys the gun from the hand of a dead man points it at the back of Books head and kills him. Gillum then walks out of the bar with both of Books guns. The movie and the book have quite a parting of ways. There are some other parts that makes Gillum look a lot different in his personality.

Though the book was a very good read, it left one with a bad feeling. Gilliam was bad in the beginning of the book and never changes. He was disrespectful of his mother and once he knew Books was sick and dying, had disdain for him also. Duke wanted Ron Howard's roll to learn a lesson in the film and had input in the way it was written as a script. Another thing about the book was it went into great detail the damage each bullet did to it's intended victim. I liked the movie alot better. dukefan1

I liked the movie much better than the book also. But I also think that this shows the John Wayne impact. No one could of accepted John Wayne in a book such as the Shootist. But the end solution was a traditional John Wayne western where good wins out and there is a lesson learned.

I just think this is a lovely film,and a great tribute to one of the best loved movie actors in history and to the legend of the old west.

I wouldnt alter one thing in the movie its just pricelesslike...Yes theirs gun play in the shoot out at the end,but the overiding message I get out of "The Shootist" and Wayne as Books tries to instill in his easily influenced landladies son (played by Ron Howard) is that being able to kill another man by being quickest or most ruthless on the draw does not make a truly noble man.

God bless the late great John Wayne who whilst he would speak his own mind and use the occassional expletive in real life, didnt think foul language and violence for its own sake made great movies,and how right he was !!!!

Regards.

Jim Clark Lond England
PS If you like poetry and acoustic music come and listen to dozens on unique online sound recordings at

http://groups.msn.com/acousticmusiciansand...etssoundarchive (http://groups.msn.com/acousticmusiciansandpoetssoundarchive)

Jim,

Welcome to the John Wayne message board, the best of its kind on the Web!

I agree with you about The Shootist, great movie!

I hope you won't be a stranger, I look forward to seeing you around!

Chester :newyear:

The Shootist is a truely great movie although not frequently watched by me because of the demise of Dukes character and the parallels it had with Duke in real life. This movie really did represent the death of the western.

:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Feb 12 2004, 08:20 PM
The Shootist is a truely great movie although not frequently watched by me because of the demise of Dukes character and the parallels it had with Duke in real life. This movie really did represent the death of the western.

:agent:
I would agree with Robbie. I like The Shootist and watch it ever now and then, but I hate to see Duke in the role.

I never thought about The Shootist being the "death of the western" but in some ways it is.

I myself do not watch The Shootist. I have the movie but can't and won't watch it. It does seem like an end not only to his life but to the great westerns. :(
Little Duke

It's little ole me again,
I just thought about this while typing on another topic. If you really think about it, the movie was the end of the great westerns and of John Wayne, but, it also said, there will never be another John Wayne again. That's it , the end, it will never be again. Do you all understand what I'm trying to say? I hope so cause I'm not sure if I do.
LittleDuke

Just saw that movie last night on Turner Classic Movies, and you know, I bet Duke would have wanted to die that way in real life. He didn't and that has to be the dad part of his life. He loved life to the end. I saw his last interview with Barbara Walters, and he did what he wanted to do until the end, and I know if he had to do that part over again, he'd choose the shootout to the death. He died in very much pain.

The Shootist in my opinion is his tribute to life he lead, and the many misunderstandings people in the world had about John Wayne. He lived his life as a hero, and role model. I am not sure, but I bet he never would have known how much he has touched so many after his death. This board is an example to that. When I see that movie, I don't see death, but the beginning of something new. William B. Books was going into a new century, and he knew that he didn't belong there. His time was short, and he somehow wanted to be remembered for his legacy. So he had the ultimate shootout, and defeated them on his terms, but someone intervened and ended his rein on the other's terms.

Yes, the American wetern film gerne has suffered a lot after The Shootist, it comes back from time to time, and touches many. For example, Silverado, Unforgiven (not my favorite), Lomesome Dove, Open Range just to name a few. Duke would not be happy with today's movies. I agree that movies are not like they use to be, and the actor's are not the same either, but thank God for Duke and the films we can own today. The films we can relive in their hey day. I have never seen My Darling Clementime on TV. I have seen it only on video (VHS & DVD).

Duke has been dead over half my life. His last three children have been without thier father over half their lives. We have his stories, movies, recordings, and passions. I wouldn't make The Shootist my favorite movie, but I can say it tells his story of his life better than any other movie he did. Don't watch this movie as being his last, but the beginning of his legacy.

Cheers, Hondo B)

Hi

Hondo what a brilliant eulogy.

In his autobiography 'A Siegal Film' written shortly before his death Don Siegal the director of 'The Shootist' devotes the first chapter to the making of the picture.

It gives an interesting insight to the whole aspect. It reveals how Duke was ill for a fortnight and that Siegal was forced to shoot around him for some of the classic last shootout scenes.

That the Director and star clashed but at the end they could both accept a draw and a memorable film.

In Herb Fagen's Duke, We're Glad We Knew You' Bill McKinney wrote:

'He was the personification of a hero. He was big, he was strong, and he was a man of his word. He was a man of conviction, he was much of what we feel a man should be, and people responded to that. That deep core inside everybody that says 'Here is a guy I can trust. I can lean on him. He will lead and will stand by his word.
*
One of the reasons he still is an American hero is because he had opinions, and by God, he would speak his mind. I respect a guy who would do that. His views during the sixties were not the prevailing views in the industry. In fact, conservative views today still are not. He was a good conversationalist. He would sit right down and talk with you. There are others we thought would last forever: Humphrey Bogart, Clark Gable, Jimmy Cagney, Gary Cooper. All those people were terrific, but we don't remember them like we remember John Wayne. There was just something there

I know that after completing The Shootist Duke contemplated making another picture'Beau James, with Ron Howard who he greatly admired, but if you look at the cast of the film, of 'The Shootist' with Richard Boone, Lauren Bacall, James Stewart, Hugh O'Brian, Harry Morgan, John Carradine, Sherry North, Richard Lenz, Gregg Palmer and Bill McKinney many of whom were glad to turn up and work almost for nothing, I think that this was Duke's Last Hurrah and a superp and fitting one at that, allbeit if it was a very poignant one.

The only thing needed to complete the ending would have been the awarding of a second oscar which believe the film merited, and which but for the incompetant marketing strategy that Paramount employed the film would have got.

Best Regards

Arthur

I have tried to find if "Beau John" was a published book but couldn't find anything. Would like to read what kind of film JW's was planning to do. Anybody knows about the origins of the book?

Jim Clark in London ; You are correct it is the message that counts in this film. As far as drama goes this was one of his best films. He knew that he did not have much time left and wanted to leave a message about "GOOD and EVIL" I saw him about one year after he did the film and this is the way he talked and what he acted like in real life! For the little lady "Jen" out there, I just got a new Copy of "The Shootist" the other one I got about 20 years ago went bad, but I do have a new box of Kleenex Tissue !! Chilibill :cowboy:

Originally posted by Hondo Duke Lane@Feb 13 2004, 12:15 AM
I saw his last interview with Barbara Walters, and he did what he wanted to do until the end, and I know if he had to do that part over again, he'd choose the shootout to the death.* He died in very much pain.

Hey Hondo, is there someplace I can go to see that interview with Barbara Walters and the Duke? Maybe a video to rent or a website that might have the interview? Thanks.

SXVIPER ; The total interview is in Pat Stacy book and the interview starts on page 151 and was broadcast on March 13, 1979 that happens to be my Birthday! Chilibill :cowboy:

Just like SXViper, I am looking for the total interview with Barbara Walters. The interview in Pat Stacy's book is incomplete, just a section of it. If anyone knows where the total interview can be found, let us know. Thanks! Dukefan1

SXViper,

You can find a partial clip on my JW fan site http://www.jwayne.com/multimedia.shtml. I captured the partial clip from a video of mine.

I to would love to get a copy of this complete interview.

Kevin

Sorry guys,

I checked into an achrieve from ABC television, and they do not have any videos out for her interviews. I am not sure if they are even thinking of doing anything in the near future, but I did send an e-mail inquiring of a possible release. We'll see, and I will stay in touch.

Cheers, Hondo B)

I have a bootleg copy of the whole show, in bad quality, but it's really something I do not like to watch that often, for obvious reasons. JW seems so full of fight, but you can see it in his eyes, he already knows he's facing a fight he'll probably loose.
I know a segment of this interview is also on one of the biography VHS, but there are so many, right now I can't recall which.

Can you imagine the courage that it took to make a movie of a man that is going to die from cancer and in reality you are that man.

As they say, You should always go out when you are on top. John Wayne sure did. Great movie, Great MAN!

It sure took a lot of guts, but two things should be considered:
1. he never intended this should be his farewell film and
2. cancer wasn't diagnosed at this time. He was sick during production, but nothing serious. Although he sometimes admitted to his friends, that he feared The Big C might come back, at the production of The Shootist, that wasn't the case.

Your right, itdo.

He was working on another project with Ron Howard, or presenting an idea to him about a project. I don't remember the name, but it never did get produced, I think Batjac Productions had rights to it, and never let it go.

Duke was sick during production of the movie. Though it wasn't at the time of production thought of as cancer, it was later discovered that it was a prelude to his sickness to cancer. That is of course an opinion from different sources of different biographies about Duke.

Cheers, Hondo B)

The idea of "Beau John" was in development in late 78 I guess.
That's the book I was asking for in another post - if anybody knew if it was published at all - but didn't get an answer yet.
The only time I saw JW mention the project by name was on that short interview he gave on an airport - he looked very fragile then - wearing a sloppy hat - and his sons Michael and Patrick obviously trying to get him into the private plane, away from the interviewers. It was then that he said "I have another book - Beau John..." etc, (that's on the documentary JOHN WAYNE - THE DUKE LIVES ON) And just when everybody thought he's in the plane, the doors are about to close - he peeks out once more, waving to the press-people!

Itdo; The best that I can find out is at the time it was a unpublished book by James Bacon called "The last Cowboy" and the movie was to be called "Beau John" and the story took place in the early 1900s . Ron Howard was to have something to do with the project ! I have a call into my contact in Hollywood and he said that he would try to find out who has the rights to the book. Chilibill :cowboy:

That's very nice of you, Chilibill. It certainly would be a thrill to read the book JW planned to make his next movie.
Ron Howard said in an interview for one of the more recent biography-videos that it was one of the highlights of his career that JW wanted to work with him again, telling him: "Hey, kid - I got a book. It's you and me or no one!"

I just updated the story an added more Pictures from "The Shootist" :cowboy: Duke last Film before He Past on. There are some pictures that I had not seen in years and maybe some of you Duke Fans might want to look at them also? :rolleyes: You can go to "THE SHOOTIST" ('http://www.wyntoontrip.com/SHOOTIST1.html') and just keep Clicking NEXT.

Chilibill :cowboy:

Hi Bill,

Strange you should start this one,
THE SHOOTIST, was my film of the night, last night.
It's a great film, and the beginning, sets the whole film up.
He shoots the saddle tramp,and says,

'Get out of the way,mister, you need to find yourself, another line of work,
this one, sure don't fit your pistol'

Duke, at his classic mature best!

As Jay mentioned in another thread,
this is the very last line Duke, spoke in a film,

'Good morning, sir, this is my birthday, give me the best in the house,
Thank you sir'

Ethan;

You are right Duke first said " This is my Birthday, give me the best in the House." The the Bar Keep gives Him the bottle and then Duke said " THANK YOU SIR " and then all Hell Breaks Loose!!! :cowboy: Even tho I like almost all of His Shoot-um-Up Westerns, I think Duke was at His very Best in The Shootist.

Chilibill :cowboy:

Hi Chilibil

I have to agree with you and Ethan, THE SHOOTIST, was one of Duke's best movies. I read somewhere that Duke enjoyed working with RON HOWARD. As HOWARD tells it sometime after making the movie, he met Duke it a function. When Duke spoke to him, he said.

"I've just read a book, it will make a great movie, it's you and me kid, or nobody."

I wonder what the movie would have been.

Emmanuel.

Emmanuel;

Duke had come across a novel called "Beau John," by Buddy Atkinson that was still in manuscript form and he like it. He had Batjac buy it. The story was about a small town Kentucky life in the 1920s. He liked it because it had humor,and because he thought it would be just right for Ron Howard and Himself and it just might get Him that second Oscar that He wanted. :) I think that Batjac still has it!

Chilibill :cowboy:

Hi Chilibil.

Thanks for the insight, It sounds like a great book. I'm sure it would have made a great movie. It's so sad that Duke never got to make it. Was the book ever pubished? If so I would love to read it.

Emmanuel.

Emmanuel;

I tried to get a copy from Batjac thru Mike Wayne in the late 1980s and it was a No-Go, :( and I think Batjac still has it in their files! :angry:

Chilibill :cowboy:

What a great man. Chilibill, you must really respect this man so much to have all that you have about him. I went through many pages on you web site and read a lot there. You collect a lot of his memory, and I appreciate as many do for sharing this with us here.

I feel that I am getting to know him on a personal basis.

Cheers B)

Hondo,

Is quite right Bill,
your personal touch, is something
that I am sure no other member can offer.
You have my personal thanks, for the insight that you give us all

Beat wishes, again,
Keith,
ee

Chilibil

I know I've thanked you before for your many insights about Duke.
I've read many of the things you have posted on this site.
So I would just like to add my best wishes, along with the other Guys.

emmanuel.

Yup, you're number one in my books too, Bill.

Chilibil, Thank you for sharing your stories and memories with us. Keep 'em coming, please.


Baby Sis


:cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy:

Chilibill,

Everyone else has said it all, so all we can say is . . .

Dittos!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks!

Chester :newyear: and the Mrs. :angel1:

hi chillbill

have taken the little bloke to see your site and we can only see so much each time as there is so much and he tends to get board and i get a dry mouth reading out all that you have written there. he thinks that all you photos are great he is really happy when pages and pages of photos come up.

so thankyou for the wonderful place to visit

cheers smokey

Originally posted by itdo@Feb 16 2004, 03:13 AM
Ron Howard said in an interview for one of the more recent biography-videos that it was one of the highlights of his career that JW wanted to work with him again, telling him: "Hey, kid - I got a book. It's you and me or no one!"
7462

Another pull from the past -
One can speculate until the cows come home, but I wonder just what kind of movie would result from JW as actor and Ron Howard as director!?
Cheers - Jay ^_^

Originally posted by Jay J. Foraker@Aug 23 2005, 03:31 PM
I wonder just what kind of movie would result from JW as actor and Ron Howard as director!?

Oh, I'd say a fair-to-middlin' movie. :P

Hi,
I agree with stumpy.
Although Duke and Ron Howard liked each other,
Duke always worked better with his,
seasoned older directors, Ford, Hawks etc.
Although, his films with Andrew McLaglen were not bad at all.
His film with Mark Rydell, THE COWBOYS,as well discussed in our other thread,
showed a level of violence, unacceptable to most of his fans.
Probably the director, being younger, did not see the family value of
films that we have all been accustomed to seeing Duke make.
I personally think that Duke and a young director would not work,
and that the age gap, would show, and the magical family value gone.!!

Keith

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Aug 23 2005, 07:39 PM
Hi,
I agree with stumpy.
Although Duke and Ron Howard liked each other,
Duke always worked better with his,
seasoned older directors, Ford, Hawks etc.
Although, his films with Andrew McLaglen were not bad at all.
His film with Mark Rydell, THE COWBOYS,as well discussed in our other thread,
showed a level of violence, unacceptable to most of his fans.
Probably the director, being younger, did not see the family value of
films that we have all been accustomed to seeing Duke make.
I personally think that Duke and a young director would not work,
and that the age gap, would show, and the magical family value gone.!!

Keith
20774


Apparently my tongue-in-cheek sarcasm passed right over Keith's head. :lol:

I thought "The Shootist" was a great movie, one of Duke's best. In fact, I thought he deserved an Oscar for that performance.

Hi Jim,
I know, I was getting carried away with excitement.
THE SHOOTIST certainly was one of Dukes better films,
and yes he did deserve an Oscar for that one.
The trailers advertised it as, probably the greatest western
ever made, but somehow, it got passed by.

Best Wishes,
Keith

Hello All
The introduction of the book 'SHOOTIST',written by Glendon Swarthout, Glendon's son Miles offers the following information;
In a 1995 survey taken among a hundred members of the Western Writers of America, the Shootist made a clean sweep, voted by them as one of the twelve greatest Western novels ever written, as well as one of the fifteen finest Western motion pictures ever made. Lengthy mention of the Duke's last ride has also been made in every Western reference book published since the film was released and it is generally considered by film experts and his fans to be one of John Wayne's five finest Western films, along with Stagecoach, Red River, The Searchers and True Grit.
In a line from the novel and the film that has been quoted innumerable times in Cinema histories and film retrospectives of the Duke's long career, J.B. Brooks , the celebrated shootist instructs Ron Howard in gunmanship and states his personal creed: I won't be wronged; I won't be insulted: I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them"This now famous credo resembles the personal code of ethics John Wayne's own druggist father taught him as a boy: Always keep your word: a gentleman never insults anybody intentionally; and don't go around looking for trouble, but if you ever get in a fight make sure you win it".
The Shootist is, in fact, loosely based on research my father did on the amazing life of John Wesley Hardin the only gunfighter to ever write his own autobiography and pass the Texas bar exam after spending much of his later life in prison for shooting 44 men and leading the Texan rebellion against the hated Yankee- carpetbagging State Police for some years after the Civil War.

The book has a note which states: "Gunfighter" is a word of recent coinage. A survey of Western newspapers of the late 1800s shows that a man notorious for his skill with handguns and his willingness to use them was called variously, a "gunman," a "man killer," an "assassin," or a "Shootist"

I have found this book an interesting read. I also have a challenge to watch this movie. When we lived in a small town in the interior of BC that was nestled next to the Columbia River backing on the Selkirk & Monashee Mountains
there was a man I knew who had cancer. We went to visit him near the end and he spoke of missing his wife who had predeceased him by some years. He said that he used to visit people who were dying and now that it was his turn to be visited he found it strange. Not long after that he ended his suffering with his rifle. I can say that there was a fair bit of talk after that, if you have ever lived in a small town for any length of time you know how that is. As I recall not one person mentioned anything negative about that, even the Catholic priest. People spoke of the low profile but decent life of the man. At the time I was sad but also felt like that was his decision to make. His son ( an adult with kids of his own) spoke to me at the reception where I was offering bar duties and he said " that was dads way"
he didn't want others to suffer watching hem in pain ."
We were none of us ashamed and this storey may not be relevant but it came to mind as I responded to this topic. Reading on a link in a post by ChilliBill I came across the Barbara Walters interview ( or at least some if not all of it ). She asks Duke a question and his answer was this; Listen I spoke to the man up there on many an occasion and I have what I've always had: deep faith that there is a supreme being. There has to be, you, it's just to me that's a normal thing to have that kind of faith. The fact that he's let me stick around a little longer, that she's let me stick around a little longer, certainly goes great with me, and I want to hang around as long as I'm healthy and not in anybody's way.
The above sounds similar to a bit of the script in 'The Alamo'. Kilo

Duke's Secretary and Sweetheart for the last 7 years of his life told my Wife and I that Duke was Very Ill at the time of the making of "The Shootist" but he did not think at that time it was Cancer.

If you want to read the post that I put up a while back about the making of "The Shootist" you can Go To THE SHOOTIST (http://www.wyntoontrip.com/SHOOTIST1.html) and just CLICKING NEXT.

Chilibill :cowboy:

Originally posted by William T Brooks@Sep 24 2005, 10:19 PM
Duke's Secretary and Sweetheart for the last 7 years of his life told my Wife and I that Duke was Very Ill at the time of the making of "The Shootist" but he did not think at that time it was Cancer.

If you want to read the post that I put up a while back about the making of "The Shootist" you can Go To* THE SHOOTIST (http://www.wyntoontrip.com/SHOOTIST1.html)* and just CLICKING NEXT.

Chilibill :cowboy:
21618


Hi Chilibill,
I didn't see the Shootist yet, and sometimes afraid to see it (so I less active in getting this film when the others), but it was great to see all this wonerful photos from the movie. :huh:
Thank you very much.
Regards,
Vera

Every actor would love to have a last picture like that one. One the just sums up his whole career.

I never get tired of The Shootist. I like it more each time I watch it. The Duke's performance is so nuanced and honest that it really is almost criminal that he wasn't nominated for an Academy Award for it.

I keep finding new things to appreciate in this movie each time I watch it. The rest of the cast was simply amazing as well. It was the best possible way to end the Duke's career.