View Full Version : Duke's Movie Horses



10cwalker
March 5th, 2003, 11:09 PM
Did the Duke ever use tennesse walking Horses in his films?

Chestnut horse with white face and 3 white socks used in True Grit and what other movies?

Was this the Dukes personal Ride?

Actual papered name of this Horse ?

Raymond
10cwalker

chester7777
March 8th, 2003, 12:42 AM
Raymond,

As I have shared in a post in a different thread, the horse from True Grit was living up in Southern Oregon as recently as 2 years ago. I'm going up there in a few weeks, and can check to see if the horse is still around and see what other information I can dig up.

Chester

REASR
March 10th, 2003, 12:07 AM
Chester
I would appreciate hearing anything you find out.

Rick

Northerner
June 23rd, 2003, 12:05 AM
Beau was a Tennesee Walker. And J.W did own him. I know this because my dad remembers when Dukes estate was sold and that old Beau was part of it.

He was a real good looking horse but I was always partial to that big appy in El Dorado. I think they called him Cochise.

Northerner.

itdo
June 23rd, 2003, 02:04 AM
Hi!
The appaloosa JW rode in El Dorado belonged to Howard Hawks. Beautiful mount, wasn't it! Yet I think JW didn't much care for Cochise, at one point he said Hawks had no sense for horse flesh. Personally, he liked the horse he rode during the late forties and early fifties, "Banner" was in a lot of westerns with him. I once saw an autographed picture JW gave to his horse wrangler of many films, enscribing it with "Find me another Banner!"

Chester, give our regards to JW's horse - wasn't it called Dollor?

itdo

Kevin
August 24th, 2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by chester7777@Mar 8 2003, 02:42 AM
Raymond,

As I have shared in a post in a different thread, the horse from True Grit was living up in Southern Oregon as recently as 2 years ago.* I'm going up there in a few weeks, and can check to see if the horse is still around and see what other information I can dig up.

Chester
Hey Chester,

Did you ever findout anything about Dollor? Did you get the chance to go up to Oregon?

Just wondering. :cowboy:

chester7777
August 25th, 2003, 05:03 PM
Kevin,

I've been to Oregon, but haven't had a chance to follow up on that. I'll try to pursue it the next time I get up there.

Chester

Quirt Evans
September 8th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Boys, I am spankin new around these parts. It was June of 1962 and it just so happened that Liberty Valance was playing the week of my birthday. That is all I wanted for my birthday, to see old Duke and Jimmy on the big screen, and I have never forgotten him, Jimmy or that classic in 41 years. Now there is a great deal about everything that I don't know, beit Duke or anything else in life, except horses. I read with keen interest a story of old Beau still being alive a few years ago and that really caught my interest! True Grit was filmed in 1968 and if Beau had been a colt, say a four year old and new to movies and True Grit was his first film, that would have made him foaled in 1964. If he was still alive two or three years ago that would have made him 36 or 37 years old. Most horses live to be 27 to 30 before their organs shut down. Their are exceptions to the rule, their always is. Duke stated in an interview that the Walker he was riding in True Grit, in his own words... Just blew up! and he was replaced. You couldn't twirl a winchester and have the first Beau stand in his tracks. The second Beau has the blaze and stockings, but he is more red, while the first horse shows a roan cast to him. Duke only admitted to owning one horse in his name. A little Quarter Horse that the papers were in the name of John Wayne. Duke was a good rider. He didn't love horses, but he didn't hate them either. The horse Cochise from El Dorado was owned by Howard Hawks. Duke said that it took a lot of arm muscle to back him out of Ed Asners ranch. Banner was the horse at Republic that Duke rode the longest. Alamo was in The Alamo and his main mount in McLintock. Of course Dollor came along with Big Jake and except for the mule in Cahill U.S. Marshall, Duke never climbed aboard another horse, just ol Dollor. Now to my question. In The Searchers, The Horse Soldiers and Liberty Valance you see Duke mounted on a tall, very fast sorrel horse with a blaze with a tiny red spot in it. Duke only rode him in the three John Ford films and for no one else. It's like pappy Ford instructed Duke to ride this one special mount. The running insert where Duke rides and fires as he attacks the Indian village is one of the fastest galloping inserts ever filmed with a major star. Clint Eastwood never in his career rode that fast.I want to know the name of that horse and I have wanted to know for years. The Searchers is one of the greatest films of the Twentieth Century and I don't know the name of the horse that the greatest western star rode! He looks to have Thoroughbred blood in him and he was truly magnificent! Well old Quirt is your latest addition to a board that means a great deal to me. I will read every word typed for Duke and Jimmy Stewart are my two all time favorites and westerns in general are my cup of tea. Thank you for your time!

Hondo Duke Lane
September 8th, 2003, 11:34 PM
Quirt Evans,

I want to welcome you to the John Wayne Messageboard, the best in all John Wayne information in the world. Thanks for signing up and being a part of a great group of people.

I'm sorry, I don't have the info you requested, but I know someone will have an answer for you very soon. I am interested myself, and sure we'll learn something new.

Make yourself at home and feel free to look over everything.

Cheers, Hondo B)

chester7777
September 9th, 2003, 01:07 AM
Quirt,

WOW! That was some first post! I really enjoyed it, and would have to say you are off to a great start here.

What part of the country do you call home? My family and I hail from California.

I don't have an answer to your question, either, but I just had to welcome you to the board, and couldn't leave such an awesome post unanswered.

I look forward to seeing you around these parts in the future!

Chester :cowboy:

itdo
September 9th, 2003, 04:32 AM
About the horse in Searchers:

When in Monument Valley, I met one of the representatives of the Navajo nation. She was a kid around the time of Cheyenne Autumn and was actually used as an extra. She told me that JW once had a grill-fest down in the valley for all the indians, and that he sometimes visited her father because (and here comes the part that's interesting for the horse-question) they used to rent horses from him. Now for western productions they would often rent the horses just where they could find them in the area, but certainly for the stars they would use trained "film-horses", used to shouting/shooting, etc. So I guess JW's mount would still have to be a special one imported from Tinseltown, but I thought this bit of info might be interesting as well.

BTW, true, good old Dollor passed away some time ago, I forgot I read that somewhere. But before that, the JW birthplace in Winterset used to ask for donations because they planned to use the horse there permanently.

Quirt Evans
September 9th, 2003, 07:09 AM
I want to thank you Hondo,Chester and itdo for your warm welcome and concern.The Searchers sorrel gelding was by far the fastest horse Duke ever swung his leg over.He had to have been contracted out because you can clearly see actor John Dehner mounted on him in a forgotten cavalry film from the 50's entitled Revolt at Fort Laramie.I believe John Ford liked this horse and that is why Duke rode him in thoses three films.After all if pappy picks your horse,you don't say no.He could have outrun the original white Duke from the 30's,Banner,Alamo or Dollor.He had flat track blue blood in him.The only horse that stood a chance of beating him,and on a good day could have was Steel.Duke only used Steel in Tall in the saddle and The Conqueror.Ben Johnson used him in She wore a yellow ribbon,Rio Grande and King Kong.Every one fought to ride Steel.Randy Scott,Joel McCrea,Greg Peck,Clark Gable.Hank Fonda was the last to use him in Warlock.Dollor was a huge horse.He was 5 foot 6 inches at the shoulder and weighed over 1200 lbs.Cochise was too small for Duke,but Howard Hawks wanted to show off his appy and that is the only appy Duke ever rode.Duke was a horseman for sure and for real.Not many men at age 64 could ride like Duke did in The Cowboys.Chuck Roberson doubled Duke for 27 years and owned a fall horse name of Cocaine that doubled for Dollor.Duke was on Cocaine for that John Ford special that Andy Devine was in.Duke broke his shoulder when his saddle slipped filming The Undefeated.Come to think of it,Clint broke his shoulder when his dapple grey slipped during filming Pale Rider.These things happen.In fact during a hospital stay in his last months Duke took a stroll through the ward and asked a girl what happened to her.The little girl said that she was hurt by a horse and Duke said that he understood,and knew what she meant.Duke truly was tall in the saddle and rode with a light hand on the reins,he didn't saw and jaw and jerk at their mouth.He use to complain that when others rode Banner at Republic that when he got him back,he had to reschool him because other actors bumped at his mouth and made him toss his head.I love John Wayne and I have studied him and his westerns.I don't know anything about airplanes,I have never led a charge in battle or roped wild animals in Africa,but I know actors on horseback and I never get tired of watching old Duke over and over again.This message board fits me like a used pair of leather gloves.

dukefan1
September 9th, 2003, 08:31 AM
Wow, Quirt! You sure have a way with a story. If you ever write a book, I will buy the first one. Welcome to the board and make yourself at home. I am looking foward to reading more of your posts. Thanks for all that info on Duke's horses. It is an area I was rather light on. I learn something all the time here. Dukefan1

smokey
September 9th, 2003, 08:41 AM
hi quirt,

i thought that i had seen duke on a horse that was just too small for him and after reading your insightful post i found out that i didn't dream it. thanks for the info and i agree with you duke had a gentle hand with his horses and they did what he wanted from them. keep it coming

cheers smokey

honeybee
September 28th, 2004, 08:26 PM
I am new here, and am always interesting in John Wayne's horses. Regarding True Grit:
Beau I noticed, is two horses. In a couple of scenes, he has a large wide blaze, almost a bald face. In others, a bit more narrow blaze. One has a left front sorrel leg, the other has a right front sorrel leg. Then of course at the end, when he is on his new horse that can "jump a four rail fence". That one is a completely different horse, until he turns it to make the jump. Then they cut away, and it appears to be the wide blazed horse again. So it appears to be a total of 3 horses. (Altho again, at the end, after Beau has died, they make no pretense to say this "new horse" is Beau. So I guess basically they are showing 2 horses as Beau. Does anyone have a clue what the heck I am talking about. (I don't know if I have said it well).

arthurarnell
October 8th, 2004, 03:33 AM
Hi Honeybee

I'd like to belatedly welcome you to the John Wayne message board, which we all think is the best of its kind, full of friendly people.

If you don't get a responce from your first post don't be diasheartened and don't worry about people not understanding how you put it. You find some wonderful information here.

So basically what I'm saying is welcome and keep posting.

Reards

Arthur

itdo
October 8th, 2004, 11:17 AM
Hey Honeybee
sometimes one wants to give a question in a topic more thought - and in the end it drops down the list and might get forgotten (thanks, Arthur for popping it up).

So: good observation on the changing of horses in True Grit. I guess you're right since on most productions they would have a "stand-in" for the "hero-horse", the one that the star rides. Because you don't want to wear out your horse before the shot is lighted and ready, and because the 2nd unit team, shooting the long shots and stuff, needs an identical horse, you're observation must be right. For stunts they would usually spray a trained stunt horse in the color needed for the particular shot. So the Beau that falls down with Rooster (in this case doubled by Jim Burk) would probably not be the same Beau ridden by John Wayne all through the picture but a stunt horse.

Then they would have more than one horse because a single horse might not be able to do all the tricks all day long - one might be good for the charge, but one might be good for just standing still. Which is very important if you want to get a good close-up of the rider in the saddle, and you don't want to do it a thousand times because the horse tends to be nervous and can't stand still.

WikiDon
August 10th, 2005, 11:42 PM
I wanted to share this article from Chicago Herald News about Dollor (before it went away).
************************************************** ***************
The Duke's horse keeps special bond

Published in the Herald News 03/13/05

(This column, by John Whiteside, originally appeared on Jan. 16, 1985.)

Dollor's ears twitch and then get alert when he hears that well-known voice. The horse looks around searching for the man behind that voice. He is looking for an old friend.

The 17-year-old chestnut gelding carried that man with that well-known voice on his back for many years. They were movie stars together.

Dollor, a long-legged quarter horse, made his movie debut in one of John Wayne's finest scenes in one of the Duke's best ever movies, "True Grit."

Most John Wayne fans remember that scene at the very end. Rooster Cogburn's other horse, Bo, had been killed when the old, fat, one-eyed marshal charged across the valley at four bad guys. Rooster got them, but they got Bo.

In the final scene, Rooster has found a new horse. Kim Darby's character comments about the new horse. The marshal says that new horse can jump a four-rail fence.

And then with a sweep of his hat, John Wayne jumps his horse across the fence and the film ends with the horse and rider still in the air.

That was Dollor carrying the Duke, said Debra Keffeler of Midlothian, Texas. She's now the proud owner of Dollor.

She said John Wayne first rode the horse in that move when Dollor was just a 2-year-old. The horse then was owned by a California movie production company that furnished horses for John Wayne movies.

"The Duke had an exclusive contract with them that no one could ride Dollor but him," she said. "I think he liked the horse because their temperaments were a lot alike."

"True Grit" was made in 1969. John Wayne made nine more Western movies after that, including "Chisum," "Big Jake," "The Cowboys," "The Train Robbers" and "Rooster Cogburn."

Dollor was in most of those films. He was mentioned specifically by name several times in the Duke's last movie, "The Shootist."

Debra said the Duke had "The Shootist" script rewritten so he could use Dollor's name. That's how much he thought of the horse.

She bought Dollor — "for a whole bunch of money" — about a year ago from an Iowa man. Dollor lives in a $65,000 barn with her nine other horses.

He's in semi-retirement, content to munch on alfalfa hay and oats. But he still likes to go, she said. Dollor was used to traveling to all the Duke's movie locations, she said.

But what he likes best of all is listening to the sounds in one of his old movies. Debra plays the old movies for him.

"He gets all excited when he hears the shooting and that voice," she said. "Then the ears get alert, and he's looking for John Wayne."

Debra manages a Western clothing store in Ducanville, not far from Dallas. Dollor often makes personal appearances at the store. He also appears at banquets and openings of other stores.

"People cry when they see Dollor," she said. "They just want to touch him. It makes them feel good to see John Wayne's horse. John Wayne was an idol to lots of us as well as a legend.

"He was a good man. People want to keep his memory alive. That's why they let out their feelings when they see Dollor."

Debra said only two other stars have ridden Dollor since the Duke's death. Robert Wagner rode the horse in a segment of the "Hart to Hart" television show, and John Forsythe rode him in "Dynasty."

She doesn't ride Dollor. Nor does she allow others to ride him.

Several times requests have been made to allow someone to ride Dollor in a parade.

"I'm not going to allow some flashy blonde to ride John Wayne's horse in a parade," she said. "That just wouldn't be right."

Ol' Dollor is going to live out his days at her place eating good hay and oats, occasionally appearing before the Duke's fans.

And for a treat, he'll get to see a John Wayne movie just as often as possible, she said.


03/13/05

SXViper
August 11th, 2005, 12:19 AM
This column, by John Whiteside, originally appeared on Jan. 16, 1985.


Whoa, thank god I read the whole thing. Because I thought, damn that is one old horse!!! Plus I was already out the door heading to Iowa to see the horse!!! :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the write up. Nice to see things like that.

ethanedwards
August 11th, 2005, 03:49 AM
Hi,
I too had to read it all the way through,
for some reason, the more I read the post,
the more I was convinced Dollar was still alive!!
However, as I read the date of the article,
my dream was quickly shattered.
How about Dukes, pre-Dollar horse,
Banner, he used this horse,in his westerns between
1940-1954.
Does anyone have any information about
this, another of Dukes favourite horses?

kilo 6
September 7th, 2005, 09:12 PM
Hello All
I would appreciate some elaboration on the statement Quirt makes about JW not loving horses. Can anyone can point me at a reference to JW and his feeling about horses.

Colorado Bob
September 7th, 2005, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by kilo 6@Sep 7 2005, 10:12 PM
Hello All
* * * * * I would appreciate some elaboration on the statement Quirt makes about JW not loving horses. Can anyone can point me at a reference to JW and his feeling about horses.

21282


Howdy Kilo,
There have been several books out about John Wayne that make some sort of mention that he either disliked or hated horses, or at least riding them. I think the most blatant mention is in Garry Wills book John Wayne: The Politics of America. In it he flat out states that Duke hated horses. Personally I hated this book and felt that Wills disliked Wayne and took every opportunity to belittle or discount him in his book. However, you have to remember that Duke grew up riding a horse to school every day when he first moved to California, and he rode well. There are several other times that he mentioned riding a horse, such as when he told about herding cattle on horseback to bring the cattle into Monument Valley in 1930 for the film Lone Star Ranger. He also rode horses with Ward Bond when they went hunting.

I don't think he hated horses per se, but I don't think they were his favorite form of transportation. He raised horses on one of his ranches, he was a good horseman and he sat a horse well, but as Duke himself once said, "When I get on a horse, I get paid a lot of money."
Colorado Bob

Senta
September 8th, 2005, 02:38 AM
Hi all,
Thank you very much to bring that topic again, I didn't find it during my search in old topics, and I' m very interested in the questions connected with Dukes horses. And I find answerers for the most of them in the posts. Only that first question about Dukes horse in The Searchers and Horse soldgies wasn't answered (I myself quess that it was the same horse) and I can't agree that it is the tall horse, I think it is less than 160 sm.
Regards,
Vera

William T Brooks
September 8th, 2005, 08:00 AM
Vera;

Duke was not what we call a Horse Lover, but thought of them as a Tool to be used in His Films. But He did have His Favorite Horses like Old Dollar and Bo. :)

In the Southwest in the 1800s and then on up into the 1980s when I was raising Horses on my ranch, we would say that a Horse was so many "Hands High!" One hand was about 4 inches or about 10 sm. And that would be to the Whithers or Shoulders of the Horse. :rolleyes:

If you would say that the Horse was 14 Hands or smaller that would be a Small Horse, <_< and if you would say the Horse was 16 Hands or more, that was a Tall Horse, and because Duke was a Very Big Man He liked a Tall Horse!!! :D

Chilibill :cowboy:

Senta
September 8th, 2005, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by William T Brooks@Sep 8 2005, 04:00 PM
Vera;

Duke was not what we call a Horse Lover, but thought of them as a Tool to be used in His Films. But He did have His Favorite Horses like Old Dollar and Bo. :)

In the Southwest in the 1800s and then* on up into the 1980s when I was raising Horses on my ranch, we would say that a Horse was so many "Hands High!" One hand was about 4 inches or about 10 sm. And that would be to the Whithers or Shoulders of the Horse. :rolleyes:

If you would say that the Horse was 14 Hands or smaller that would be a Small Horse, <_<* and if you would say the Horse was 16 Hands or more, that was a Tall Horse, and because Duke was a Very Big Man He liked a Tall Horse!!! :D

Chilibill :cowboy:

21292


Hi Bill,
You always bring some important and interesting information not only about Duke but about the horses size as well. I was always thinking about the meanings of that Hands and inches.
Here were the most horses are bred for sport 16 Hands don't seems too much. It is the middle sized horse, tall is about 17. Even trotters nobody would like to bay less than 16 hands high (I like that way to say about horse size in hands).
What horses have you bred on your ranch? I myself thinking about breeding trotters, but haven't started yet. If I start it will be only one breeding mare.
Regards,
Vera

William T Brooks
September 8th, 2005, 04:43 PM
Vera;

Thirty years ago on my ranch in California, I was raising Hereford Cattle and Arab Horses. After a few years it was very clear that it was a very Expensive thing to be in Raising Arab Horses. :fear2: We had 27 Horses, Mostly Mares and One Arab Stud to service the Mares. :) Lightning Hit the Stud Horse and Killed him, and that is when I sold all but one of the Mares for my Wife Martha and One Gilding for me to use on the Ranch. :( If you want to read a little more on the Ranch you can go to Horse Ranch (http://www.wyntoontrip.com/RANCHINPRB.html)

I will talk to you next week, I am leaving for a few more days at Duke's 26 Bar Ranch with my Son. :) This time we are going to Ride up to the Line Shack up in the High Country to get some more Video for the Promo that we are doing for the Ranch. :)

Chilibill :cowboy:

kilo 6
September 8th, 2005, 06:39 PM
Hello All
Hi Chilibill - nice storey about the ranch. Speaking of horses JW rented 1600 for the filming of the Alamo. ( according to Roberts and Olson book JW American ) Hi Colorado thanks for the reference I have to agree with you that Gary Wils seems to have a lot of negative things to say about JW Kilo

WikiDon
September 9th, 2005, 01:57 AM
The horse's name is DOLLOR...!!!!</span>

M & A
Can we merge the two horse topics? One "Duke's horses" in "General Discussions" and one in "Off Topic Discussions" called "Dukes Rides { Horses }"

Horse Timeline
Can we start a timeline for the horses? Something like this.

1930-1941: Duke
1942-1952: Banner
1953-1968: Beau
1968-1978: Dollor

Put in the main horses and any other subs, like the ones Hawks insisted on.

The Quiet Man
Did anyone find out about the horse in "The Quiet Man"? They didn't ship a horse all the way to Ireland for basiclly one scene did they?

Don

Senta
September 9th, 2005, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by William T Brooks@Sep 9 2005, 12:43 AM
Vera;

Thirty years ago on my ranch in California, I was raising Hereford Cattle and Arab Horses. After a few years it was very clear that it was a very Expensive thing to be in Raising Arab Horses. :fear2:* We had 27 Horses, Mostly Mares and One Arab Stud to service the Mares. :)* Lightning Hit the Stud Horse and Killed him, and that is when I sold all but one of the Mares* for my Wife Martha and One Gilding for me to use on the Ranch. :(* If you want to read a little more on the Ranch you can go to Horse Ranch (http://www.wyntoontrip.com/RANCHINPRB.html)

I will talk to you next week, I am leaving for a few more days at Duke's 26 Bar Ranch with my Son. :)* This time we are going to Ride up to the Line Shack up in the High Country to get some more Video for the Promo that we are doing for the Ranch. :)

Chilibill :cowboy:

21299

Hi Chilibill,
I have read about your ranch with great interest. You are right that it is difficult to make money on Arabian horses. Good friends of mine started a farm near St.Petersburg more than 10 years ago. I must add that horse breeding became possible for private persons in Russia only in 90-es. Now they have a big number of horses, about 1/3 of them _Arabian, others raised for the sport. Their arabian horses participate in races and also in the Show for Arabian horses, which became quite popular in the last years. They didn't make much money but somehow they keep the farm. But all hey is their own.
I hope your visit to the Dukes ranch will be successful. Hope to hear from you again,
Regards,
Vera :)

REASR
September 10th, 2005, 10:08 PM
WikiDon
You left out Steel and Alamo


Rick

Colorado Bob
July 25th, 2006, 02:43 PM
I'm pretty sure this question has already been asked, but in going through the past posts, I can't seem to find the thread. Does anyone know the names of the horses that John Wayne rode in his films, and what horses in what films?
Thanks for the help,
Best,
Colorado Bob

etsija
July 26th, 2006, 04:22 AM
This has been up, but I can't find the discussion either, so, the two most famous ones are Duke and Dollor. Duke is the pure white in some 30's westerns - it had some other name earlier but was renamed after its rider. Dollor is seen for the first time in the final scene of the True grit, the "another tall horse" Rooster had bought. And in several films after that.
Here's Suburban Chicago (http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/opinions/columnists/whiteside/j13jfwcol.htm) a small article about Dollor

Tbone
July 26th, 2006, 08:45 AM
I wonder if Dollor is still alive? He'd be almost 40! :o

Colorado Bob
July 26th, 2006, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Tbone@Jul 26 2006, 09:45 AM
I wonder if Dollor is still alive? He'd be almost 40!* :o

33185



It seems to me that I read somewhere a while back that Ol' Dollor passed away. Thanks to everyone for helping me out. The subject came up between myself and another John Wayne fan one day while we were at work, and we were trying to come up with the names of the different horses Duke rode and in what films. The topic kinda stuck in my head, so I've been researching it. Since I know the best John Wayne authorities and experts are right here at the JWMB, I kinda figgered I'd start my research right here. I knew y'all wouldn't let me down, and ya didn't. If I come with anything else, I'll let y'all know.
Thanks again,
Colorado Bob

ejgreen77
July 26th, 2006, 11:54 PM
Bob,

You might want to check out these 2 threads:

http://www.dukewayne.com/thread64.html

http://www.dukewayne.com/thread45.html

JOHNWAYNEABE
July 27th, 2006, 04:49 AM
Screw the links please post the names! :cowboy:

etsija
July 27th, 2006, 05:25 AM
Thanks for the links, ejgreen, very interesting reading, especially Quirt's posts.

Everybody says that Dollor is in all the films after True grit, except for the mule in Cahill. I watched bits of them yesterday, and it is definitely Dollor in the Undefeated, Chisum and Rio Lobo - large blaze, almost bald face, white under the muzzle too, and three white legs, left front sorrel. Very long legs.
The horse in Big Jake and after looks different: narrower blaze, only two socks, in the hind legs and not so long legs. Ok, it may be have become sturdier when older and so the legs seem relatively shorter, but what about the markings? Is it masked in the same way in all the later films?

William T Brooks
July 27th, 2006, 02:10 PM
I put up a little Picture Site of some of the Duke's Film Horses but not all :( . I do not have pictures of all of them yet but I am going to find them. :D I think I remember some of them from the early days as

DUKE the White Horse
STEEL
ALAMO
BANNER
BEAU or BO
DOLLAR or DALLOR or DOLLOR

You can go to

DUKE'S HORSES (http://www.26barranch.com/DUKESHORSES.html)

Chilibill :cowboy:

Colorado Bob
July 27th, 2006, 10:49 PM
Howdy All,
Well so far, what I have come up with regarding the horses John Wayne rode is this:

He rode Duke the Miracle Horse (real name Sheik) in:
Haunted Gold
The Telegraph Trail
Somewhere in Sonora
The Man from Monterey
The Big Stampede
Ride Him Cowboy

He rode Starlight in:
Pals of the Saddle
Overland Stage Raiders
Sante Fe Stampede
Red River Range
The Night Riders
Three Texas Steers
Wyoming Outlaw
Riders of Destiny
Westward Ho (possibly)
The Sagebrush Trail (possibly)

He rode Banner in:
Angel and the Badman
Hondo
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Three Godfathers

He rode Sammy in:
A Lady Takes A Chance (although this may be Banner)

He rode Steel in:
The Conqueror
Tall in the Saddle

He Rode Alamo (owned by John Wayne) in:
The Alamo
McLintock!

He rode Beau (owned by John Wayne) in:
True Grit
The War Wagon (possibly)
The Comancheros (possibly)
The Sons of Katie Elder (possibly)

He rode Zip Cochise (owned by Howard Hawks) in:
El Dorado

He rode Dollor in:
True Grit (his first film with John Wayne. He was 2 years old)
Big Jake
The Cowboys
The Train Robbers
Rooster Cogburn
The Shootist (possibly)

I'm still looking and researching. Watching movies and comparing known photos with the films. I don't why this thing has stuck in my craw the way it has, but I'm having fun doing it! Hope I'm not boring y'all with my prattlin' on, but thought I'd share what I've learned. Once this thing has run its course, if I come up with any more info, I'll let ya know. And by the way, thanks to Bill and ejgreen77 and etsija and ethan for helping me out with this.
Best to all,
Colorado Bob

ejgreen77
July 27th, 2006, 11:08 PM
Bob,

I've always thought the horse JW refers to as "Sammy" in A Lady Takes A Chance was Steel, the horse he rode for his RKO films. I haven't checked it out carefully, though.

Senta
July 28th, 2006, 01:10 AM
Hi Bob,
I thought that he also rode Banner in the Rio Grande and Fort Apache.
Regards,
Vera

Originally posted by Colorado Bob@Jul 28 2006, 06:49 AM
Howdy All,
Well so far, what I have come up with regarding the horses John Wayne rode is this:

He rode Duke the Miracle Horse (real name Sheik) in:
Haunted Gold
The Telegraph Trail
Somewhere in Sonora
The Man from Monterey
The Big Stampede
Ride Him Cowboy

He rode Starlight in:
Pals of the Saddle
Overland Stage Raiders
Sante Fe Stampede
Red River Range
The Night Riders
Three Texas Steers
Wyoming Outlaw
Riders of Destiny
Westward Ho (possibly)
The Sagebrush Trail (possibly)

He rode Banner in:
Angel and the Badman
Hondo
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Three Godfathers

He rode Sammy in:
A Lady Takes A Chance (although this may be Banner)

He rode Steel in:
The Conqueror
Tall in the Saddle

He Rode Alamo (owned by John Wayne) in:
The Alamo
McLintock!

He rode Beau (owned by John Wayne) in:
True Grit
The War Wagon (possibly)
The Comancheros (possibly)
The Sons of Katie Elder (possibly)

He rode Zip Cochise (owned by Howard Hawks) in:
El Dorado

He rode Dollor in:
True Grit (his first film with John Wayne. He was 2 years old)
Big Jake
The Cowboys
The Train Robbers
Rooster Cogburn
The Shootist (possibly)

I'm still looking and researching. Watching movies and comparing known photos with the films. I don't why this thing has stuck in my craw the way it has, but I'm having fun doing it! Hope I'm not boring y'all with my prattlin' on, but thought I'd share what I've learned. Once this thing has run its course, if I come up with any more info, I'll let ya know. And by the way, thanks to Bill and ejgreen77 and etsija and ethan for helping me out with this.
Best to all,
Colorado Bob

33243

William T Brooks
July 28th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Bob;

You did a great job of Nailing down all of Duke's Horses from The Old Days. :rolleyes:

Vera I think you are right about Fort Apache and Rio Grande. It is hard to remember after all these years. :angry: It has been over 50 Years ago when Duke made these Films. I put up one more page on Duke's Horses on the Site Below. Let me know if some of them are not right. :fear2:

MORE OF DUKE'S HORSES (http://www.26barranch.com/DUKESHORSES2.html)

Chilibill :cowboy:

Colorado Bob
July 28th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by William T Brooks@Jul 28 2006, 11:59 AM
Bob;

You did a great job of Nailing down all of Duke's Horses from The Old Days. :rolleyes:

Vera I think you are right about Fort Apache and Rio Grande. It is hard to remember after all these years. :angry:* It has been over 50 Years ago when Duke made these Films. I put up one more page on Duke's Horses on the Site Below. Let me know if some of them are not right. :fear2:

MORE OF DUKE'S HORSES (http://www.26barranch.com/DUKESHORSES2.html)

Chilibill :cowboy:

33250


Thanks Bill.
You've saved me some research! I have to play the DVD's on my computer, take a screen capture of the horse, save it to my computer, then bring it up in another program and compare the photo to a known photo of the horse I am researching, comparing color, markings and size (if I can, based on people or other things near the horse). It is time consuming, but you've just saved me about a half hour.

I think Vera is right about Banner in Fort Apache and Rio Grande, so I will add those two to my "Banner" list.

ejgreen77, I am still not sure about "Sammy" being "Steel." I have read that Duke only rode Steel in two films, "The Conqueror" and "Tall in the Saddle," but that could be wrong. One thing I have noticed in researching John Wayne, is that some folks simply rely on research that others have done, without checking it out first. This often allows mistakes to creep in and be listed as fact. I think I'll make Lady Takes a Chance my next project and see just who "Sammy" is, if I can.

I'll keep y'all updated.
Best to all,
Colorado Bob

Colorado Bob
July 30th, 2006, 07:16 PM
Howdy All,
I did a little more research, and what I'v ecome up with is this. John Wayne rode Sammy in Lady Takes a Chance. he also rode Sammy in The Conqueror, as his first horse. He later switched to Steel. John Wayne rode Steel in Tall in the Saddle also. Steel has a large white blaze and three white stockings. Sammy has a small white star right between his eyes. I could be wrong on this. Please feel free to correct me if I am. I am going to try and add a comparison photo of the two horses from these three films, and I'll keep y'all updated as I continue looking at John Wayne's horses.
Best to all,
Colorado Bob

etsija
July 31st, 2006, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Colorado Bob@Jul 28 2006, 04:49 AM
He rode Dollor in:
True Grit (his first film with John Wayne. He was 2 years old)
Big Jake
The Cowboys
The Train Robbers
Rooster Cogburn
The Shootist (possibly)

I've had time to watch carefully only Rooster, Rio Lobo and Cowboys halfway so far, but I'm going to the bottom of this... If those paintings Chilibill posted are any proof, Dollor is the horse with 3 white legs and a blaze. That's the one in Rio Lobo (as long as Duke is in the army, in civilian he has a black star-head), but in Rooster and Cowboys he has a light sorrel with a stripe, white on muzzle and white hind legs - not Dollor. This horse also holds its head in a different way, bending on the neck, while Dollor has a habbit of throwing its head up.
In the scene where mr Anderson ropes a calf in Cowboys, there's a third similar looking sorrel: white hind legs, but a larger blaze - the horse changes when the actual roping begins, apparently the star horse is not a cow-horse.
The filly the boys help to break has a name in the movie, Crazy Alice.

Colorado Bob
July 31st, 2006, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by etsija@Jul 31 2006, 06:26 AM
I've had time to watch carefully only Rooster, Rio Lobo and Cowboys halfway so far, but I'm going to the bottom of this... If those paintings Chilibill posted are any proof, Dollor is the horse with 3 white legs and a blaze. That's the one in Rio Lobo (as long as Duke is in the army, in civilian he has a black star-head), but in Rooster and Cowboys he has a light sorrel with a stripe, white on muzzle and white hind legs - not Dollor. This horse also holds its head in a different way, bending on the neck, while Dollor has a habbit of throwing its head up.
In the scene where mr Anderson ropes a calf in Cowboys, there's a third similar looking sorrel: white hind legs, but a larger blaze - the horse changes when the actual roping begins, apparently the star horse is not a cow-horse.
The filly the boys help to break has a name in the movie, Crazy Alice.

33284


Thanks etsija,
I'm still looking at these DVD's, so I can compare the different horses, but it looks like you are right. When I get a more definitive list, I'll post it, hopefully with some pictures. I wish I could talk to someone who knew John Wayne and knew the horese he rode as well. I'll keep looking and thanks for setting me straight on the horese in Rooster, Rio Lobo, and Cowboys.
Best,
Colorado Bob

erthomp143
July 31st, 2006, 10:36 AM
Not to throw a wrench into the works, but don't forget about makeup. Any changes we see could just be makeup continuity error. I know they have painted special blazes and markings on horses, can't seem to remember any movie names right now. But I seem to remeber a horse with a lightning bolt or something like that.. heck I don't know maybe I'm just starting to get old... lol

Didn't they dye the dog in Hondo or Big Jake?

etsija
July 31st, 2006, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by erthomp143@Jul 31 2006, 04:36 PM
Not to throw a wrench into the works, but don't forget about makeup.* Any changes we see could just be makeup continuity error.

I'm not forgetting that movies are illusion, that's why I'm doubting myself when I hear things like "Duke never mounted another horse after Dollor". And I'm waiting to hear a second opinion that's based on careful watching or first-hand knowledge. Still, I don't believe these horses are madeup. Why would they be?


Originally posted by erthomp143@Jul 31 2006, 04:36 PM
Didn't they dye the dog in Hondo or Big Jake?

In Big Jake the dog keeps changing colour. I believe it's a collie painted black (most of the time) so that it looks like Belgian shepherd (groenendahl). May be because they didn't want it to look like Lassie?

etsija
August 3rd, 2006, 04:12 AM
In Cowboys, Anderson (Duke) rides a second horse, a buckskin, on the cattle trail. During the start credits, in the small backside pictures there is probably the same horse than in the calf roping scene.

In Cahill Duke has again the same stripe head sorrel than in Cowboys and Rooster

William T Brooks
August 3rd, 2006, 05:56 AM
Bob, and Any of you other people that into the horses that Duke used in some of His older Films, I have added a few more Pages to the Site Below. :)

And yes they Can and Did use Make Up on some of the horses. When we were doing the "Gunfighters" series back in the early 1980s for Hearst A.B.C. and needed more Paint Horses for the Yavapai Apache Indians to ride, the Make-Up People that work on animals were brought in from California and they did their thing, and we had plenty of Paint Indian Ponys for the Apaches to ride. :D

If you want to see more on Duke's Movie Horses you can go to

DUKE'S FILM HORSES (http://www.ranch26bar.com/DOLLOR.html)

Chilibill :cowboy:

chester7777
August 3rd, 2006, 01:45 PM
So . . . from another thread, over three years ago . . .

Originally posted by chester7777@Mar 7 2003, 11:42 PM
As I have shared in a post in a different thread, the horse from True Grit was living up in Southern Oregon as recently as 2 years ago.* I'm going up there in a few weeks, and can check to see if the horse is still around and see what other information I can dig up.
312
Now, fast forward (or something like that) to just a few months ago . . . when I was up in Oregon, I asked about Beau, and found out that he had passed on about three years ago, about the time we were discussing that particular horse originally. I was thinking it's too bad they didn't stuff him, like Trigger, Roy Rogers' horse. He might have been a welcome addition to the 26 Bar Ranch museum :D !

Chester :newyear:

Tbone
August 3rd, 2006, 02:28 PM
I remember seeing the stuffed Trigger when I was a kid. For some reason he scared me, even though I had been around horses all my life.

Tbone

William T Brooks
August 3rd, 2006, 03:07 PM
Chester My Friend, good to see you back we need some of your input!

I guess I could go out in the Morning and Shoot one of those Great Big Elk in my front yard every Morning and have him Stuffed and get a Good Make-up Man and make him look like Beau or Dollor. :fear2:

But who is going to Sit in the Saddle on Him? Not Me !!! :fear:

Bill :cowboy:

Senta
August 17th, 2006, 02:23 AM
Watched The War of Wildcats recently and noticed that Duke rode Banner there too. Sometimes changing him to the other horse with the same confirmation (usually I recognised Banner by it and after look at marks) but different hear marks.
Regards,
Senta :rolleyes:

ethanedwards
October 10th, 2006, 04:30 AM
Hi,

Here's something I came across,
which you might find interesting,

Western Cowboys and Their Mounts (http://www.molyworld.net/aa/hhh-cowboys.htm)

chester7777
October 10th, 2006, 10:10 PM
Keith,

Thanks for that great link! It's great seeing all those classic stars with their horses!

Chester :newyear:

Senta
October 11th, 2006, 02:18 PM
Hi Keith,
Thank you for wonderful photos. Saw them in the Gallery.
Regards,
Vera

chester7777
October 18th, 2006, 09:22 AM
You know, I just breezed through that site the first time, but in looking at it a second time, in a more leisurely way, I'm disappointed to note that they only show one of Duke's horses.

Chester :newyear:

ethanedwards
October 18th, 2006, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by chester7777@Oct 18 2006, 03:22 PM
You know, I just breezed through that site the first time, but in looking at it a second time, in a more leisurely way, I'm disappointed to note that they only show one of* Duke's horses.*

Chester :newyear:

36098


You know Jim, You're right,
so to even things up a bit,

[ATTACH]911]******[ATTACH]912]*******[ATTACH]913]

Banner**************Zip Cochise***************Duke

William T Brooks
October 18th, 2006, 04:45 PM
Chester;

If Keith's Three Pictures are not enough, here is a post that I put up a while Back, that will show you More of Duke's Horses, Plus a Story. :)

DUKE'S MOVIE HORSES (http://www.ranch26bar.com/DUKEMOVIEHORSES_1.html)

Bill :cowboy:

ethanedwards
October 18th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Hi,

Sorry, I forgot one,

Dollar,

[ATTACH]915]

William T Brooks
October 18th, 2006, 05:45 PM
Keith;

That looks more like a Half Dallor!!! :headbonk: :) :D :lol:

Bill :cowboy:

Senta
October 19th, 2006, 12:35 PM
Hi,
I watched The War Wagon recently and noticed that horse under Douglas is very much lokk like Dollor.
What do you think about it?
Regards,
Senta :rolleyes:

Dollor
October 24th, 2006, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Dollor@Oct 24 2006, 09:57 PM

Thanks for the links, ejgreen, very interesting reading, especially Quirt's posts.

Everybody says that Dollor is in all the films after True grit, except for the mule in Cahill. I watched bits of them yesterday, and it is definitely Dollor in the Undefeated, Chisum and Rio Lobo - large blaze, almost bald face, white under the muzzle too, and three white legs, left front sorrel. Very long legs.
The horse in Big Jake and after looks different: narrower blaze, only two socks, in the hind legs and not so long legs. Ok, it may be have become sturdier when older and so the legs seem relatively shorter, but what about the markings? Is it masked in the same way in all the later films?

36336

I understand that all of you are John Wayne fans but after reading alot of your comments about Dollor I am amazed at the lack of knowledge. Mr. Wayne started riding Dollor In 1969 in True Grit after the horse name Bo was killed. Chisum 1970, Big Jake 1971, The Cowboy's 1972, The Train Robbers 1973, Cahill U S Marshall 1973, Rooster Cogburn 1975 and his final movie the Shootist in 1976.
The information that ChiliBill is advertising is not at all correct. The picture is not of Dollor but of Bo. Dollor was a chestnut 15 1/2 hands tall, he had two white hind stockings and a narrow white blaze. Bo was a sorrell, had three white stockings and a wide white blaze face. I am the Texas lady that owned Dollor for twelve years and hired a taxidermist to have him mounted. The information that was printed on Ebay was false and I am in the process of suing in court. The taxidermist did indeed ruin my horse. The taxidermist and his buddy known on ebay as Illegal Smile thought they could get by with what they had done. I just hope that Dollor can be fixed since I have had plans since 1991 to have him mounted and his final resting place to be Winterseet Ohio, John Wayne's birthplace.

Deb
DEB9TU@aol.com

ethanedwards
October 25th, 2006, 04:00 AM
Hi Dollar,

Thanks for your post.
I am sure, that the members, who have been involved
with this thread, will have some comments to make,
regarding it.

However, when it comes to knowledge,
and getting one's facts right,
I would like to point out this,

The John Wayne Birthplace Society,
(of which I am a member),
is in Winterset, (correct spelling)
and that is in IOWA (not Ohio) as you stated!

William T Brooks
October 25th, 2006, 08:06 AM
Dollor;

I am not Advertising Anything!

I was not lucky enough to ever see Ol Dollor in the Flesh, But I did get to see and Ride Banner for about Two Minutes in 1947 in "The Angle and The Badman" and again in what was Called The Triogy in the Late 1940s. :)

You are right about Banner and Ol Dollor. Banner was what we called a Bay Horse and Dollor looked like a Chessnut to me. The Bay Horse was a Dark Brown color, and a Chessnut was a Redish Lighter Color Brown and most of the time did not have the Darker colored Lower Legs.

Good Luck on Trying in Suing over a Dead Horse!!! :headbonk:

You might want to look at the Markings Again?

DUKE'S HORSES (http://www.ranch26bar.com/FIBERGLASS.html)


Chilibill :cowboy:

Dollor
October 25th, 2006, 08:34 PM
[quote]
Dollor;

I am not Advertising Anything!

I was not lucky enough to ever see Ol Dollor in the Flesh, But I did get to see and Ride Banner for about Two Minutes in 1947 in "The Angle and The Badman" and again in what was Called The Triogy in the Late 1940s. :)

You are right about Banner and Ol Dollor. Banner was what we called a Bay Horse and Dollor looked like a Chessnut to me. The Bay Horse was a Dark Brown color, and a Chessnut was a Redish Lighter Color Brown and most of the time did not have the Darker colored Lower Legs.

Good Luck on Trying in Suing over a Dead Horse!!! :headbonk:

You might want to look at the Markings Again?

DUKE'S HORSES (http://www.ranch26bar.com/FIBERGLASS.html)


Chilibill :cowboy:

36345

Dollor
October 25th, 2006, 08:54 PM
I am sorry that I dont need to check Dollor's markings since I fed him bathed him cleaned his stall hauled him. Sorry for the misprint of Ohio, I have received letters and had telephone conversations with Priscilla Steenhock on having Dollor there at the museum. Before Dollor died in 1995 and before Ben Johnson died we had a tribute to John Wayne at Ft Worth Texas. There were alot of celebrities their including James Drury who played the Viriginia alot of pictures were taken that night. People from all over came to my ranch to see Dollor and and to take pictures. I also received alot of letters from John Wayne fans from all over the U.S. As for suing the taxidermist he has ruined the horse and the intent of having him at the museum so that the fans could see him. That was the reason for having him mounted in the first place after all Dollor was the horse that carried the legend. I just hope that Dollor can be fixed.

Best regards,
Deb

etsija
October 26th, 2006, 03:29 AM
Finally something that makes sense in this Dollor thing. Yes, the horse with a large blaze is in True grit and is called Bo in the film. I just wonder those paintings, they portray Bo then, is it there where this legend about big-blazed Dollor started? And, Vera, I'm sure you're right, it's the same blaze-head, now Bo, under Douglas in War wagon. However, Deb's statement is still not the final truth:

1) It's still Bo (the large blaze) in Chisum, as it is in Undefeated and Rio Lobo. In Big Jake we see Dollor (stripe and white muzzle) for the first time and it stays with Duke ever since

2) What about this legend about 2-year old Dollor in True grit then? - The horse in the final scene, behind the talking Rooster and Mattie is neither Dollor or Bo - this horse has a star with a stripe, not white muzzle, but a small pinkish spot under it and two white socks, not stockings in the hind legs (although this is hard to see, the whole horse is not properly shown). When preparing to the jump, it is Bo again, and which horse is actually jumping, cannot be told

brick
November 5th, 2006, 05:40 AM
How many movies was duke the horse in with John Wayne. I've seen a few and enjoyed them I remember one they were in the desert with arab's. Wasn't the horse billed as the smartest horse in the world or something like that. thanks for the info.

ethanedwards
November 5th, 2006, 05:56 AM
Hi brick,

This has already been discussed in great detail,
over in this thread, so for continuity
reasons, I have moved your post over to here.

Your question has already been answered previously
but just to help you, here is my post from the Movie Reviews.

Duke the Wonder horse was in at least
the six Warner Brothers movies, that Duke made.
in the early 1930's

Haunted Gold
Ride Him Cowboy
The Big Stampede
The Telegraph Trail
Somewhere in Sonora
The Man From Montery


ethanedwards*
post Feb 9 2006, 09:00 AM

Four of these, were re-makes of some silent films, that Ken Maynard had made.
These Duke versions were also made, to use up unused film, that WB had,
featuring Ken Maynard and Tarzan, his miracle horse.
They brought in Duke and Duke! The Wonder Horse,
and substituted them into the films!!
If you look closely, you can spot the difference,
between the two actors.
Even the two horses, are noticeably different.

He may have been others, but not that I know of.

ejgreen77
November 5th, 2006, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by ethanedwards@Nov 5 2006, 07:56 AM
He may have been others, but not that I know of.

36668


Duke was also the horse in most of the Lone Star films as well, though he didn't get the same build-up Warner was giving him.

etsija
February 4th, 2007, 02:23 PM
I was searching how Maynard´s Tarzan looked like, and found this site http://www.surfnetinc.com/chuck/hoss.htm. Interesting stuff on B-movie horses

chester7777
September 18th, 2007, 10:45 PM
The film clip that can be viewed here (http://www.thefutureschannel.com/dockets/hands-on_math/horses_in_movies/) is not specifically about John Wayne's horses, but about horses in the movies, and I thought many of you would find it interesting. It's about 5 minutes long.

Enjoy!

Mrs. C :angel1:

dallas
November 13th, 2007, 04:26 AM
Hi. There is a man down near Willcox where I live that claims he owned Dollar and that John Wayne came to him when they were making a movie. He had already paid to rent all these horses and cattles and he offered to buy Dollar and the man refused... until after the movie was finished! I also met a cowboy here that says he trained Cochise for El Dorado.

Someone took the time to correct my spelling of Dollar. this is the way it was spelled in the newspaper article by the man who owned the horse originally. I will be very careful in postings in the future.

BILL OF PA
November 13th, 2007, 01:26 PM
hi dallas! hope this only one of many post. small note and alot of people get this confused,but the spelling of the horse is dollor a spanish word. take care.

brick
December 6th, 2007, 06:43 AM
Wasn't there 2 white horses in the 30's movies I know one was Duke the wonder horse, it seemd like one had a shorter tail then the other. I'm not sure.

Colorado Bob
December 24th, 2007, 10:30 PM
Wasn't there 2 white horses in the 30's movies I know one was Duke the wonder horse, it seemd like one had a shorter tail then the other. I'm not sure.

Howdy Brick,
The other white horse was named Starlight. And by the by, since I started this thread, I have found out that the horse in Lady Takes A Chance, that I was calling Sammy, was actually named Missed-A-Shot, or Misty, for short.
Best to all,
Colorado Bob

ethanedwards
July 7th, 2008, 12:11 PM
Been looking for this thread, and being that
Murray posted one on 'Horses',
I thought members who missed this previous thread,
might be interested.

And here is the link again for the Cowboy stars:-


Western Cowboys and their Mounts (http://www.molyworld.net/aa/hhh-cowboys.htm)

and the Home Page, which shows the President's horses, American Racehorses, etc.


Horse's Galore (http://www.molyworld.net/aa/hhh.htm)

tinker
April 2nd, 2009, 05:44 AM
I hope this is the right thread to ask this question.

In True Grit, it looks like the horse that jumps the fence at the end is not the very young Dollor. Its a different horse I am pretty sure. Similar chestnut. I saw something the other day where Harry Carey Jr said the horse that Ben Johnson rode in the gallops being chased by the Indians was not Steel but a stunt horse called Bingo that was a spectacular galloper and jumper and it did all the fast work. You can see in Rio Grande that the horse Ben Johnson is galloping on is not the one he gets to lie on the ground. I think it is Steel lying on the ground and Bingo galloping.

If Bingo was around in 1968 he would have been in his 20's but he would have been safe and reliable horse to do the jumping stunt and I am wondering if it was him they used to jump the fence. It looked very like him. He is also the horse that runs away from the Indians in Wagon master and jumps the post and rail fence although it is Steel that spins when you first see the Indians.

The other thing I noticed watching the John Ford films all together recently was the same stunt horses seemed to be used in a number of films over a number of years. There is rather a plain black horse with a white strip that was one of the horses that reared up and dumped the new recruits in Fort Apache. The same horse had nearly a staring role in "She wore a yellow ribbon." It was the Bugler's horse and reared spectacularly in all the cavalry scenes. Even getting yelled at by Captain Brittles.

He also reared in Rio Grande, in harness when the wagon was stolen by the Indians and throwing a couple of Indians in other scenes. I am also fairly certain Hank Worden rode him in 'The Searchers'

There were also another couple of horses, dark sorrel horses with roman noses and light coloured manes. One of them, maybe both interchangeably, was used as the sidesaddle horse for Joanne Dru. John Wayne gives it a mighty wack on the rump when you first see it with the sidesaddle. The horses seem to be the "spare" roman riding team in Rio Grande that Jeff rode and one of them (both of them interchanging) were used for the galloping scene when Jeff rides to the fort and Tyree gets his gun. You can also see one as them as the horse a soldier falls off in the last cavalry charge.

Does anyone know anything about these horses. They were clearly very reliable stunt horses. Were they the regulars from Fat Jones stable? I doubt they were local because they are in a number of films over a number of years and always used for actors or in the front rows of all the stunts.

Also one more. Was the black thoroughbred that General Sheridan ( and Ben Johnson) rode in Rio Grande Misty that played Banner in My Friend Flicker, it looked like him.


Thanks for any information

dee

William T Brooks
April 2nd, 2009, 06:53 AM
If you go to my Site Below it will show you some of Duke's Horses .
(bud)
Chilibill
:cowboy:

http://www.ranch26bar.com/DUKESHORSES.html

dukefan1
April 2nd, 2009, 08:48 AM
You sure do have an eye for horse flesh, Tinker. I'm sorry, I can't answer your question. But it wouldn't surprise me if there was someone here who could. I hope you find your answer, as I always learn myself when someone brings up and has answered an obscure or unusual question.

Mark

Stumpy
April 2nd, 2009, 10:00 AM
You sure do have an eye for horse flesh, Tinker.

That's for certain. Like most western movie fans, I never pay attention to the horses or even bit player humans.

chester7777
April 3rd, 2009, 08:12 AM
I hope this is the right thread to ask this question.
Dee,

This IS the right thread to ask your question! Wow, you have an eye for detail when it comes to horses, I can see! I'm sorry to say that I don't have answers to any of your questions, but as someone before has mentioned, there is an excellent chance someone here will.

You join a good-sized group of members from Australia, and I also know that there are other members who know about horses and may be able to help you.

We're glad you have come our way, and look forward to seeing you around!

Chester :newyear:

tinker
April 4th, 2009, 06:22 AM
Thank you so much anyway. Also on the subject of horses I think John Wayne was riding Banjo in Red River too, at least at the end.

And just to add some information Harry Carey Jr says the horse he rode in 'She wore a yellow ribbon' was a very quiet horse called Uncle Sam that was a real ex cavalry horse.

And the horse that does the fall in the rope tug of war in McLintock looks very like Chuck Roberson's famous falling horse Cocaine.

dee

tinker
April 14th, 2009, 07:38 AM
As I originally asked about the rearing horse in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and other John Ford and John Wayne movies I thought I would share that I found something about him. He was as I suspected a well known horse. His name was Ski and he came from Fat Jones Stables. Fat Jones, who owned the most famous movie horse stable ( or barn I guess you call it) was Ben Johnson's father-in-law, and supplied the horses he used and most of the stunt and star horses for John Ford movies.

http://members.tripod.com/~horsefame/equine1.html

dee

Ervserver
April 16th, 2009, 12:14 AM
great website dee, those horses are amazing

trooper3198
May 25th, 2009, 03:07 PM
Does anyone know anything about the black horse used in the Quiet Man, I belive he was ridden with a McClellan saddle too, would'nt they be almost impossible to obtain in Ireland in the time period the movie is set in? :wink:

ethanedwards
October 3rd, 2010, 07:07 PM
I have moved the following posts, from Duke's Books- Discussion.

jessie
October 10th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Am just reading this book and was interested to read that the Author has included a quote from JW

"Iv never really liked Horses and i daresay not many of them really liked me too much "

Ref: page 12

There was another too but iv lost the page, i have to say i'm pretty surprised aobut that.

arthurarnell
October 11th, 2010, 02:16 AM
Hi

There was a time when the media took up on a quote that Duke was scared of horses. You don't spend your life riding something you don't like.
The only time he could have been said to have been really uncomfortable on a horse was during the making of the Quiet Man when the horse he was riding had an English saddle which he couldn't get on with. Look at the scenes and you will see that he is using a western style saddle.

Regards

Arthur

jessie
October 12th, 2010, 03:58 AM
And i think it was " El Dorado " where they put him on the Appaloosa named "Cochise" he was way too small for him, wonder why they did that.

Well i think he must have had some affection for them as he spent most of his early life and career aboard one.

pinto
November 28th, 2010, 04:35 AM
I had to watch EL Dorado just to see that handsome spotty..Magnificent Appy :chickawow:



The dukes horse in 'The train robbers' had the ability to change his socks and stripe..... as for the baddies their horses could gallop flat out all through the movie without resting, eating or drinking... A remarkable feat considering a top TB can only race for a mile or so before needing a break .. Yes I know it's only a movie.....

Jay J. Foraker
December 28th, 2010, 07:41 PM
In an earlier post on this topic, Colorado Bob mentioned that Duke said, in essence, "I won't ride a horse unless I get paid for it."

jessie
May 11th, 2011, 07:21 PM
Boys, I am spankin new around these parts. It was June of 1962 and it just so happened that Liberty Valance was playing the week of my birthday. That is all I wanted for my birthday, to see old Duke and Jimmy on the big screen, and I have never forgotten him, Jimmy or that classic in 41 years. Now there is a great deal about everything that I don't know, beit Duke or anything else in life, except horses. I read with keen interest a story of old Beau still being alive a few years ago and that really caught my interest! True Grit was filmed in 1968 and if Beau had been a colt, say a four year old and new to movies and True Grit was his first film, that would have made him foaled in 1964. If he was still alive two or three years ago that would have made him 36 or 37 years old. Most horses live to be 27 to 30 before their organs shut down. Their are exceptions to the rule, their always is. Duke stated in an interview that the Walker he was riding in True Grit, in his own words... Just blew up! and he was replaced. You couldn't twirl a winchester and have the first Beau stand in his tracks. The second Beau has the blaze and stockings, but he is more red, while the first horse shows a roan cast to him. Duke only admitted to owning one horse in his name. A little Quarter Horse that the papers were in the name of John Wayne. Duke was a good rider. He didn't love horses, but he didn't hate them either. The horse Cochise from El Dorado was owned by Howard Hawks. Duke said that it took a lot of arm muscle to back him out of Ed Asners ranch. Banner was the horse at Republic that Duke rode the longest. Alamo was in The Alamo and his main mount in McLintock. Of course Dollor came along with Big Jake and except for the mule in Cahill U.S. Marshall, Duke never climbed aboard another horse, just ol Dollor. Now to my question. In The Searchers, The Horse Soldiers and Liberty Valance you see Duke mounted on a tall, very fast sorrel horse with a blaze with a tiny red spot in it. Duke only rode him in the three John Ford films and for no one else. It's like pappy Ford instructed Duke to ride this one special mount. The running insert where Duke rides and fires as he attacks the Indian village is one of the fastest galloping inserts ever filmed with a major star. Clint Eastwood never in his career rode that fast.I want to know the name of that horse and I have wanted to know for years. The Searchers is one of the greatest films of the Twentieth Century and I don't know the name of the horse that the greatest western star rode! He looks to have Thoroughbred blood in him and he was truly magnificent! Well old Quirt is your latest addition to a board that means a great deal to me. I will read every word typed for Duke and Jimmy Stewart are my two all time favorites and westerns in general are my cup of tea. Thank you for your time!


Gee, i soooo enjoyed reading that post, fantastic, this is such a great site !!!

ethanedwards
May 11th, 2011, 08:01 PM
For continuity, I have now merged
the two similar threads about Duke and his horses.

jessie
May 11th, 2011, 11:43 PM
Thanks Ethan, great idea, tonight when i get time i want to re-read them.

Hawkswill
June 20th, 2012, 07:26 AM
Glad to find this. I am a 62 year old woman who has done everything but act! I was researching for a book I am writing when I discovered John Ford and his Stock Troupe. My book took a turn, and I have been researching western stunt men and character actors that I feel really MADE our heroes and pretty much got "left out in the cold" when it came to acknowledgement. Was about to post something about Duke's horses in The Searchers after viewing it and Peter's commentary on it over a hundred times, when I saw something that I had missed all those times. Scar was sitting on the horse Duke rode in most of the movie. Boy, that scrambled my theory a bit. I do believe though that the horse Duke was riding when Marty tried to stop him from going after Debbie, was one that was a "light spooker" whenever someone threw up his arms or caused a disturbance in front of him. Duke was able to stay on him and look good although he had to physically rein the horse with both hands and shift his weight to keep him away from Marty. On the other horse he rode so much, the one with the wide blaze with the spot on it and two front white stockings and the right back leg, you never saw the reins tighten, and he used one hand to hold them. He used body language and neck reining with that horse. Going into Scar's lodge, he was moving too fast so had to pull him around to the left....loose reins, weight shift and neck rein. Once he was straight to the lodge, Duke lifted his legs until almost perpendicular and then gave the horse a real NUDGE and they both went straight into the lodge. This is the same horse that Duke rode in the shot running through the village at lightning speed. Now, If I could just find out what the horse's name was. Anyone know? Thanks and glad to be here, KP

chester7777
June 21st, 2012, 12:00 AM
Glad to find this. I am a 62 year old woman who has done everything but act! I was researching for a book I am writing when I discovered John Ford and his Stock Troupe. My book took a turn, and I have been researching western stunt men and character actors that I feel really MADE our heroes and pretty much got "left out in the cold" when it came to acknowledgement. Was about to post something about Duke's horses in The Searchers after viewing it and Peter's commentary on it over a hundred times, when I saw something that I had missed all those times. Scar was sitting on the horse Duke rode in most of the movie. Boy, that scrambled my theory a bit. I do believe though that the horse Duke was riding when Marty tried to stop him from going after Debbie, was one that was a "light spooker" whenever someone threw up his arms or caused a disturbance in front of him. Duke was able to stay on him and look good although he had to physically rein the horse with both hands and shift his weight to keep him away from Marty. On the other horse he rode so much, the one with the wide blaze with the spot on it and two front white stockings and the right back leg, you never saw the reins tighten, and he used one hand to hold them. He used body language and neck reining with that horse. Going into Scar's lodge, he was moving too fast so had to pull him around to the left....loose reins, weight shift and neck rein. Once he was straight to the lodge, Duke lifted his legs until almost perpendicular and then gave the horse a real NUDGE and they both went straight into the lodge. This is the same horse that Duke rode in the shot running through the village at lightning speed. Now, If I could just find out what the horse's name was. Anyone know? Thanks and glad to be here, KP

Welcome, Hawkswill, We have several horse experts on our board, hopefully one will spot your post and has the answer. In the meantime take a look around, and, enjoy!!

Chester :newyear: and the Mrs. :angel1:

ethanedwards
June 21st, 2012, 05:32 AM
As far as I remember, I think the horse
Duke rode in The Searchers was Beau. also known as Bo.
I believe Duke owned that horse.

ethanedwards
June 21st, 2012, 05:52 AM
This is an interesting post made earlier in this thread.
Of course as the discussion, amendments were made,
so it's good to go through this thread again.

Howdy All,
Well so far, what I have come up with regarding the horses John Wayne rode is this:

He rode Duke the Miracle Horse (real name Sheik) in:
Haunted Gold
The Telegraph Trail
Somewhere in Sonora
The Man from Monterey
The Big Stampede
Ride Him Cowboy

He rode Starlight in:
Pals of the Saddle
Overland Stage Raiders
Sante Fe Stampede
Red River Range
The Night Riders
Three Texas Steers
Wyoming Outlaw
Riders of Destiny
Westward Ho (possibly)
The Sagebrush Trail (possibly)

He rode Banner in:
Angel and the Badman
Hondo
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Three Godfathers

He rode Sammy in:
A Lady Takes A Chance (although this may be Banner)

He rode Steel in:
The Conqueror
Tall in the Saddle

He Rode Alamo (owned by John Wayne) in:
The Alamo
McLintock!

He rode Beau (owned by John Wayne) in:
True Grit
The War Wagon (possibly)
The Comancheros (possibly)
The Sons of Katie Elder (possibly)

He rode Zip Cochise (owned by Howard Hawks) in:
El Dorado

He rode Dollor in:
True Grit (his first film with John Wayne. He was 2 years old)
Big Jake
The Cowboys
The Train Robbers
Rooster Cogburn
The Shootist (possibly)

I'm still looking and researching. Watching movies and comparing known photos with the films. I don't why this thing has stuck in my craw the way it has, but I'm having fun doing it! Hope I'm not boring y'all with my prattlin' on, but thought I'd share what I've learned. Once this thing has run its course, if I come up with any more info, I'll let ya know. And by the way, thanks to Bill and ejgreen77 and etsija and ethan for helping me out with this.
Best to all,
Colorado Bob

Peridot
June 21st, 2012, 09:40 AM
Welcome, Hawkswill, We have several horse experts on our board, hopefully one will spot your post and has the answer. In the meantime take a look around, and, enjoy!!

Chester :newyear: and the Mrs. :angel1:

While I am by no means a horse expert, I have some reason to be an amateur expert on Richard Boone, and by extension, a semi-expert on Hal Needham. Therefore, I do know that John Wayne rode Needham's stunt horse, Hondo, in at least one of his films.

At the moment I haven't access to the resources which can tell me which film or films those were. I'm thinking that Kirk Douglas was in one of them, but I could be mistaken. I'll have to get back to you on this topic when I can get to my Kindle. The book with the info is Hal Needhan's autobiography, Stuntman. It's a great read all on its own, BTW, not to mention all the interesting stories Hal Needham has to tell about Richard Boone, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, all the films Needham worked on and all the stars he doubled. It's a great read, believe me. I've read it 4 times since I bought it and laughed aloud every time.

I'll have to get back to y'all on this one.

ethanedwards
June 21st, 2012, 06:19 PM
While I am by no means a horse expert,

I'll have to get back to y'all on this one.
Peridot
I do believe we answered he question, a few posts back!

As far as I remember, I think the horse
Duke rode in The Searchers was Beau. also known as Bo.
I believe Duke owned that horse.

Hawkswill
June 22nd, 2012, 05:14 AM
Duke rode a few horses in The Searchers. Was about to post something about Duke's horses in The Searchers after viewing it and Peter's commentary on it over a hundred times, when I saw something that I had missed all those times. Scar was sitting on the horse Duke rode in a good bit of the movie. Boy, that scrambled my theory a bit. I do believe though that the horse Duke was riding when Marty tried to stop him from going after Debbie, was one that was a Movie horse stable, "light spooker" whenever someone threw up his arms or caused a disturbance in front of him. Duke was able to stay on him and look good although he had to physically rein the horse with both hands and shift his weight to keep him from turning into and possible really hurting Marty. On the other horse he rode so much, the one with the wide blaze with the spot on it and two front white stockings and the right back leg, you never saw the reins tighten, and he used one hand to hold them. He was very comfortable on this horse as is easy to see. He used body language and neck reining with that horse. Going into Scar's lodge, he was moving too fast so had to pull him around to the left....loose reins, weight shift and neck rein. Once he was straight to the lodge, Duke lifted his legs until almost perpendicular and then gave the horse a real NUDGE and they both went straight into the lodge. This is the same horse that Duke rode in the shot running through the village at lightning speed. Now, If I could just find out what the horse's name was. Anyone know? Thanks and glad to be here, KP