hi,
I saw last the Comancheros again, and the story begins in 1843.
About the texan rangers and in the movie were two great shooting scenes.
one with the attack on the farm and the shootout in the wagon.

I know much about history and I know also that the winchester guns with what they were shooting, were used at the end of the civil war in 1865.

please reply on this.

cya Jwfan

John Wayne was tired of historical accuaracy after the fiasco of the dire movie called "The Alamo" and he wanted to prove to his fans that he was still a star and not past his prime. He was also facing serious financial problems so money was needed and fast and not historical accuracy.

B)

The last thing I watch for on a John Wayne movie is if it down to the wire accurate. Take The Flying Leathernecks, who cares if they call F6F Hellcats , F4F Wildcats, or the japanese close ups are in mock F6F Cockpits. Not to mention the Spitfires scenes in The Flying Tigers. They are still John Wayne movies to me and thats what I watch them for.

Brian
Tulalip Wa

hi robbie,
Thanks for the information but I thaught that after North To Alaska his financial problems were gone?


cya Jwfan

BrianB,
Glad to see someone else who can overlook a lot of the flubs in movies. I agree with you that "Flying Tigers" aircraft are not accurate (note to you: there are some P-40's of several different models developed after the tigers disbanded shown in the movie). A lot of war movies had to do with stock military movies or newsreels for certain footage.

Robbie, "The Alamo" was a fiasco in money terms only. Part of the problem is that they had to build the Alamo set almost 2 years before shooting the picture. Still, it went on gaining seven Academy Award nominations, winning one for Best Sound. Wayne was upset because it didn't get Best Picture. Otherwise, it is the best movie made about the Alamo. (Note: there is a new movie in production today about this subject. Its name sofar is also called "The Alamo")

JWfan, Wayne's financial troubles really never went away. That is why Michael Wayne took over for his father. Wayne did alright, but not as well as he would have liked. For the "The Longest Day", Wayne did not want to travel overseas and do the picture. After some badgering from Darryl Zanuck, Wayne decided he needed the money, so he asked for the outrageous sum of a quarter of a million dollars for just a cameo appearance. Zanuck agreed, to Wayne's surprise.

;) Baron,

I might add that he had a bad financial advisor, which was Tori's (Wayne's second child) husband. He made very bad investments, and lost a lot of Duke's money. He, I imagine was very afraid to tell Duke of the bad investments.

Duke was in New York buying presents to family and friends (might have been Christmas) and discovered when he went to charge for the gifts, they told him that his credit was overdrawn or canceled. That made Duke very mad, and he checked to see what was going on, when his son-in-law told him what happen, he immediately fired him.

There was another family member who took on his financial affiairs, and messed up also. I forgot how that story went. Duke didn't plan well, and got the wrong people to take care of his financial affairs.

Cheers,
Hondo B)

JW fan I suppose you obviously noticed the scene in which Dukes toupee is on backwards, LOL what was he thinking?

B)

Tonight my wife and I watched The Comancheros, and it seems that each time I see it, it goes up a few notches on my list of favorites. The dialog between Wayne and "Paul Regret" all the way through is great. It was filmed back in early 60s in Moab, Utah. My wife lived there for a year in the mid-80s, and she and her family went hiking in the La Sal mountains just east of Moab. Locals there directed them to what is known as the John Wayne tree, so they went for a look-see. Sure enough there was an apsen with the name John Wayne carved into it. They were told that JW carved it during a film shoot...and we have determined that it must have been Comancheros. So if you are ever in Moab, UT, just ask the locals and they will direct you to it.

Does anyone else share my particular fondness for this film? I think in many ways, it captures the pure essence of JW in a western film.

GSP

This is the first film that Duke did after his production of The Alamo. Duke almost went broke making that movie, and needed a lift after disappionting release of it. The Comancheros did the trick and help Duke out of a financial diaster in 1961. The Alamo brought him a little money back, but it caused him a lot of heartache.

Cheers, Hondo B)

I have been to Moab, mainly of course to find the locations of JW pictures. The scenery is just wonderful. But I must have missed out the tree! Too bad. The first one JW did in that area is Rio Grande and I tried - unsuccessfully - to find the spot where they build the adobe town for the big shoot-out. I was in the right area, but not in the exact right spot which is a private area.
Where Ford placed the fort in "Rio Grande" is at the Colorado river, and that's a private owned ranch as well (he also filmed a fort sequence of "Cheyenne Autumn" there).
I found the spot where they filmed the fording of the Colorado, doubling for the Rio Grande (where JW meets Mexican officials) and he himself named a characteristic stone "locomotive" spot.
Not far from there is Devil's Tower, where The Comancheros had their camp - there's no trace of that left. Anyway, people get there for hiking, not for location scouting. If you'd like to know more, there's a good book: "Where God put the West", that'll tell you all about films made in that area. One motel in town claims to be the one "where JW slept".

Hondo, the first film released after Alamo was North to Alaska, the first of his new deal with Fox, which included Comancheros, that came right after that one. But the first one he went filming (actually when Alamo was still to be released) was Hatari!

Hi,

One of the reasons I love certain films is the sound track.
Von Korngolds stirring music of the thirties and forties in Robin Hood and the Sea Hawks equally matched Errol Flynns stirring deed of daring and carried the audience along.

So it is with John Wayn westerns and in his case he had some fabulous composers compose some fabulous music. Apart from the Alamo and Red River. two films I particularly like, and both for different reasons are The Sons of Katie Elder and The Comancheros. The first because it is stirring throughout, the second because it seems to have many moods and in certain passages evokes a great deal of sadness.

it was probably no coincidence that Michael Curtiz directed Errol Flynn and The Comancheros.

With the aid of the music the film had vitality, motion and bounce. Westerns more than any other genre benefit from stirring music Bernsteins music in The Comancheros became as equally important to the film as the script, forcing itself to the forefront than than in some films remaining un-prtentious like in the background. When Wayne and Marvin drive the wagon at speed the music beats out the tempo and the speed the wagon goes, as it does when the Comancheros ride.

At other times when the music slows and qoes quiet, it gives, to me at any rate, a slight sense of peace, calmness nostalgia, a sadness almost a sense of ending and a remberance of John Wayne's quality. Which when you realise he would not die for another eighteen years may seem ridiculous, but as I couldn't know then but do now hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Incidentally I thought the movie was great.

Regards

Arthur

Originally posted by arthurarnell@Feb 14 2004, 09:40 AM
Hi,

One of the reasons I love certain films is the sound track.
Von Korngolds stirring music of the thirties and forties in Robin Hood and the Sea Hawks equally matched Errol Flynns stirring deed of daring and carried the audience along.

So it is with John Wayn westerns and in his case he had some fabulous composers compose some fabulous music. Apart from the Alamo and Red River. two films I particularly like, and both for different reasons are The Sons of Katie Elder and The Comancheros. The first because it is stirring throughout, the second because it seems to have many moods and in certain passages evokes a great deal of sadness.

it was probably no coincidence that Michael Curtiz directed Errol Flynn and The Comancheros.

With the aid of the music the film had vitality, motion and bounce. Westerns more than any other genre benefit from stirring music Bernsteins music in The Comancheros became as equally important to the film as the script, forcing itself to the forefront than than in some films remaining un-prtentious like in the background. When Wayne and Marvin drive the wagon at speed the music beats out the tempo and the speed the wagon goes, as it does when the Comancheros ride.

At other times when the music slows and qoes quiet, it gives, to me at any rate, a slight* sense of peace, calmness nostalgia, a sadness almost a sense of ending and a remberance of John Wayne's* quality. Which when you realise he would not die for another eighteen years may seem ridiculous, but as I couldn't know then but do now hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Incidentally I thought the movie was great.

Regards

Arthur
The music from Katie Elder is also one of my favorite scores, Arthur. As you say, it's stirring. I like the music from "Rio Bravo" and 'The Cowboys" too.

Thanks for the great info, Itdo, I had forgotten that Rio Grande was also filmed in Moab. Sorry you missed the JW tree, but you would have to actually hike up into the La Sal mountains east of town and ask the locals there. My wife saw the carving about 20 years ago, and said it looked great.

GSP

Another tree important in Wayne films I was looking for but could not spot is the tree Davy Crockett stands under in his "There's right 'n there's wrong" speech. The exact spot is about 30 miles from Alamo village (that's a long walk for Davy and Flaca, isn't it? ;) ), and the place still looks beautiful. But to find that tree - if it would still exist after all those years - proved to be impossible. An older lady at the postoffice there directed me to the spot. She remembered it well because, as a young girl, she got all excited when JOHN WAYNE was in the neighborhood shooting a picture! There's a hotel there now.

Hi

Just got through watching The Comancheros on BBC 2 yesterday, and a thought struck me. the film is set in 1843 Texas and John Wayne is fighting the Comanchee Indians the same as he will in another 25 odd years in The Searchers.

Using that time scale the picture is set seven years after the Alamo was fought, yet John Wayne infiltrates the Comancheros headquarters selling brand new what looks like 'yellow boy' winchester repeating rifles. Looking at the history of the winchester the yellow boy was the first Winchester produced and they didn't come out until 1866.
Is this just a historical bloomer or have I got it totally wrong.

Originally posted by arthurarnell@Oct 2 2005, 04:27 AM
Hi

Just got through watching The Comancheros on BBC 2 yesterday, and a thought struck me. the film is set* in 1843 Texas and John Wayne is fighting the Comanchee Indians the same as he will in another 25 odd years in The Searchers.

Using that time scale the picture is set seven years after the Alamo was fought, yet John Wayne infiltrates the Comancheros headquarters selling brand new what looks like 'yellow boy' winchester repeating rifles. Looking at the history of the winchester the yellow boy was the first Winchester produced and they didn't come out until 1866.
Is this just a historical bloomer or have I got it totally wrong.
21776


I doubt that you have it wrong, Arthur. Such bloopers are common, especially in movies that purport to show periods in the past.

You guys are right, I watched it the other day and was thinking the same thing. What they needed to do was not show any date at all in the film and it wouldn't have mattered. But the later in the 1800's you get the less of a problem the indians were so I supose they thought they needed to relate that in there somehow.

Can you imagine making this movie with single shot rilfes and black powder pistols? :blink:

Well spotted Arthur,
And considering, with the help of
film reversal, Duke is able to shoot
the Winchester, from both sides!!!

Keith