I was wondering if anybody out there knows if any of the dvds of John Waynes films include any extras which show some of the scenes that were finally deleted. I see this a lot on modern movies and think that it would be really interesteng to see unseen footage in such great movies as El Dorado and The Searchers etc

B)

Hey Robbie,

Welcome to the board. This is a good question. I don't have all of the Duke's movies on DVD, but the ones I do have, do not have deleted scenes. That includes:

The Searchers
The Quiet Man
The Shootist
Stagecoach
The War Wagon
Donovan's Reef
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
True Grit
The Alamo
Sands of Iwo Jima
The Longest Day
She Wore A Yellow RIbbon
Rio Grande
Rio Bravo
Sons Of Katie Elder
The Horse Soldiers
Hellfighters
A Lady Takes A Chance
Hatari!
The Green Berets
Red River

The Greatest Story Ever Told does have deleted scenes, but Duke makes a brief appearence in that movie.

Maybe someone can tell you about the other moives.

Hondo :rolleyes:

Robbie:

A very good question, but unfortunately in the days of Duke's films, they really did'nt keep the cut scenes. This is very unfortunate for in the movies Duke made with Ford, these scenes that were edited or cut would have probably made some lesser directors careers. I think it would have been very interesting and marketable to have collected those scenes and included them in a special edition video or dvd.

Ethan

Yo Ethan

That is annoying that so much footage of Dukes is lost, but you have to remember that nearly one hours footage of the Alamo was lost until very recently. Apocalypse now which was made in the early seventies has had an extra 1 hour added to it and Duke made a lot of movies in the seventies. I still think that there is footage from his films out there, there is one such scene that I am sure of and that is of Harry Carrey Jnr wanting to enlist with Chance in Rio Bravo but being turned down becuase he has not good enough. It has been seen by some people.

Can anyone help regarding deleted scenes

B)

I just want to bring this message to the top of the forum again as it may rejog some peoples memory or some new members may know the answer to this question.

B)

The trailers are a good source to find deleted scenes and sometimes other camera angles because most often they had the trailers in the theaters when they were still fine tuning the cut of the picture.
In the Back to Bataan trailer there's another angle of the stunt in which JW gets blown out of his bomb shelter.
In the Trouble Along the Way trailer there's another angle of John punching his opponent through a window.
Lots of deleted scenes in the Longest Day trailer: Missing scenes with Paul Anka and Jean-Louis Barrault and the scene with JW and Robert Ryan is cut differently. Also cut was the scene in which Irina Demich gets back to that wine cellar after successfully blowing up the train only to find her comrades murdered. Then she's picked up by some nasty Gestapo fellas. It was shot - there are photos in a tie-in for the movie, and Demich's portrait they used for the poster was taken from that scene - yet I have never seen it anywhere.

Hi Roland

Thats solves one slight mystery as I was always curious as to what happened several scenes in the trailer of the Searchers. Do you know of any way apart from via trailers of how to come across these scenes nowadays and do you know of any other cut scenes that may exist.
B)

Hi Robbie,
yep, there are some shots in The Searches trailer which weren't used. Sometimes they might also film additional scenes to promote the film, like for the Trailer of The War Wagon or for Rio Bravo, or an introduction like for The Barbarian and the Geisha.
Where to find deleted scenes? I wish I knew. You mean where the original material might be? They're either stored somewhere with the studios (must look somehow like that last scene of Raiders of the Lost Arc - they would never find them again themeselves, even if they still had them) or already detoriated, because the original material on 35mm won't stay with us forever.

Hi, one movie I do have on dvd that added in a few deleted scenes was in the movie Big Jake. Ones that I noticed that were added was after their ambush by Fein and they were at their campsite and at night when the Duke notices that his son (Patrick) was limping. It turned out he was hit in the ashcan with buckshot.

The Duke tells him to drop his pants who also refuses until the Dog growls. Next you then see him cutting out the buckshot. Also, the Duke also uses a variation on a curseword from Bas.... to Bustard. I thought that was good to hear instead of the real curseword.

:cowboy: TRK.

Yep, but that scene always was in the theatrical version shown in cinemas, it was sometimes cut for television.

TRK,

I assume that you are talking about these deleted scenes were in the movie and not in a deleted section on the DVD. Right? I have the DVD, but don't remember seeing a special feature on Deleted Scenes.

Cheers B)

This is one of my favourite topics and I notice this is the one where Mike welcomes me to the board, very interesting to see these old posts again.

I was watching a documentary the other day on Humphrey Bogart and it contained many scenes deleted from his movies such as Casablanca etc and even had footage shown alternative endings to some of his movies it was very interesting.

Duke was from the same era as Bogart which gives me some hope that there is deleted scenes from his movies still in existance. With regards to the above comment Roland is correct that scene was always in Big Jake but I do get the feeling that this movie may have had many scenes deleted from it along with the movie Hondo, any additional information would be great.

Thanks.

:agent:

As many will know deleted scenes is one of my favourite topics and I apologise in advance if anybody is beginning to find my questions on this subject a little boring.

I was recently reading the 'JW scrapbook' which stated that the liklihood of finding the missing scenes from the Alamo was the same as that of a man giving birth to a baby, how wrong this proved.

I was recently reading a post on the IMDB regarding the High and the Mighty and many stated that within the DVD release of this movie several scenes seemed to be missing from what they remember seeing in the 1950's.

In addition to this Big Jakes seems to have suffered from either lost footage or deleted scenes as the outcome for the bad guy called young Billy is unknown.

The trailer for the Searchers shows several shots of John Wayne riding that were not added to the final version for what ever reason. One of these shots shows Duke with the confederate cape so this missing footage could state what actually happened when Ethan located Lucy (Maybe thats why Ford deleted it).

My question is have any of Dukes movies been affected due to lost footage that was there originally in the movies release.

Is there footage still available of deleted scenes from Dukes movies?

I would love to hear some of your information and views on this subject.

Thanks in advance
Robbie.

I don't have any specific details for you but seeing that they are releasing a 2 disc special Edition of "The Searchers", you may get your wish as far as deleted scenes go. Oh and "Stagecoach" as well.

Speaking of missing footage, I've recently watched "HONDO" for the first time in years the other day, and I swear that part of the final battle is missing. After the battle Hondo gives Lenny (the James Arness character) his rifle because as Ward Bond says, "He shot that Indian off your back". That's part is in the DVD.

But, I remember, watching the movie when I was a kid, and I remember the scene where Lenny saves Hondo from being stabbed by an attacking Apache; it's a close up of Arness firing Hondo's rifle saving Hondo's life. That part of the battle scene is not in the DVD.

Anyone else remember that scene?

Interestingly enough that scene is also missing from my VCR version although I did tape it of the TV.

Hi Sxviper I have not heard much about the release of the 2 DVD special for the Searchers but I hope there are deleted scenes within it, maybe someone else on this site can help.

:agent:

What would be really cool would be if someone found Duke's original five hour cut of THE ALAMO!! B)

I didn't know the uncut original of the Alamo was 5 hours, I thought the original was located weighing in at 3hrs 13 mins.

:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Mar 27 2006, 06:17 AM
I didn't know the uncut original of the Alamo was 5 hours, I thought the original was located weighing in at 3hrs 13 mins.

:agent:
29824

The 3hr 13 min version was the longest version release to the public. The 5 hour cut was Duke's original cut that was only shown to UA executives. The chances that it still exist is almost nill. :cry2: Then again that is what we said about the 3 and a 1/4 hour version.

Originally posted by ZACK613@Mar 27 2006, 03:11 PM
The 3hr 13 min version was the longest version release to the public. The 5 hour cut was Duke's original cut that was only shown to UA executives. The chances that it still exist is almost nill. :cry2:* Then again that is what we said about the 3 and a 1/4 hour version.
29835

That's correct. The 3 hour, 13 minute version is the one shown at the premiere and for some weeks thereafter here in San Antonio. No lengthier version was ever seen by the public.
Cheers - Jay :uhuh:

What extra footage did the 5 hour version have, it sounds like Duke filmed an awful lot of footage.

:agent:

Resar mentioned about 2 years ago on this board that there is a scene of Duke twirling his rifle in the trailer for Hondo. As this scene is currently not in the movie it would be a nice little addition to the movie if it was copied from the trailer onto the movie.

:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Mar 28 2006, 01:54 PM
What extra footage did the 5 hour version have, it sounds like Duke filmed an awful lot of footage.

:agent:
29847

I wish to G-d I knew. I have never talked to anyone who has seen it. Perhaps some of the footage is an Duke's TV Special "The Spirit of the Alamo". Anyone out there have a copy? :uhuh2:

I know a company that has all the outakes from Hondo & Stagecoach.

Originally posted by stall 956@Apr 2 2006, 05:04 PM
I know a company that has all the outakes from Hondo & Stagecoach.
30024

Can you elaborate a little please?

:agent:

I have ssen in print about Dobe Carry's scenes that were edit out of Rio Bravo. He is a townee who wants to help much as Ward Bond's character. Remember the movie was conceived as the Anti-High Noon.

Originally posted by ZACK613@Apr 2 2006, 10:32 PM
I have ssen in print about Dobe Carry's scenes that were edit out of Rio Bravo. He is a townee who wants to help much as Ward Bond's character. Remember the movie was conceived as the Anti-High Noon.
30028

Have you seen the footage or just read about it?

:agent:

Originally posted by ZACK613@Apr 3 2006, 12:32 AM
I have ssen in print about Dobe Carry's scenes that were edit out of Rio Bravo. He is a townee who wants to help much as Ward Bond's character. Remember the movie was conceived as the Anti-High Noon.
30028


Hi Zack,
Why anti High Noon. I never compared them.
Regards,
Senta

Originally posted by Robbie@Apr 2 2006, 06:03 PM
Have you seen the footage or just read about it?

:agent:
30030

Alas only read about it.

Originally posted by Senta@Apr 2 2006, 11:47 PM
Hi Zack,
Why anti High Noon. I never compared them.
Regards,
Senta
30035

Duke and Howard Hawks felt that High Noon was Un-American because the town people refused to help the sheriff. The Screenwriter (who was blacklisted) made no secret that he saw it as an allegory for Americans not speaking out about the "persecution" of American Communist. Coop him self, of course, was as good a Republican as Duke was, and no doubt saw the movie's message differently.
This is why in Rio Brave everyone wants to help, this in Duke & the Director's view was the REAL America. The actions of American People in the aftermath of September 11 bore them out.

Hi Zack,
Thank you for the comment. I like High Noon and never thought of that.
Regards,
Senta :rolleyes:

I doubt whether the 2 Disc Searchers release will include any deleted scenes according to the news on DVD Times:

Disc 1:
Newly remastered and restored from original VistaVision film elements
Introduction by Patrick Wayne (John’s son)
Commentary by Director Peter Bogdanovich (The Last Picture Show, What’s Up, Doc?)
Theatrical trailer

Disc 2:
The Searchers: An Appreciation
A Turning of the Earth: John Ford, John Wayne and The Searchers
Behind the Cameras:
Meet Jeffrey Hunter
Monument Valley
Meet Natalie Wood
Setting Up Production

The Searchers: Ultimate Collector’s Edition which includes a Two-Disc Special Edition DVD with extensive all-new bonus features, plus a full color 36-page press book, a 36-page reproduction of the original Dell comic book, filmmaker memos and correspondence, several behind-the-scenes photos and a mail-in theatrical poster.

For the complete news about all DVD's in this collection see:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Robbie,

Why do you ask?

I find the subject of deleted scenes in Dukes movies to be fascinating. I was hoping that some here would have some information on the subject and I also realise that the upcoming edition of the searchers will not have any such material on it.

Here are two pictures from the Searchers that must have been from deleted scenes, I hope a few more of you will join in on this conversation as its one of my faovourite topics.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links] 26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN)

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links] 26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN)

:agent:

In relation to John Waynes movies, how many of them have a directors cut. We all know about the Alamo but are there other movies of his that have a directors cut version in existance and if so what extra scenes does the directors cut version contain?

Robbie
:agent:

Hi Robbie,

We know about
The Alamo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]),

from our discussions in that topic.

Red River ([Only registered and activated users can see links]),
was also re-released as a Directors Cut,
127mins, which only appears to be 2 minutes longer,
than the documented time.
So, what was added to that?

Robbie, if you don't object and it's OK with you,
I've now placed your post, under Movie Discussions,
which, indeed, is what it's all about.
It now has the advantage of remaining prominent,
and not get bumped down, as it will,
over in General Discussions, OK?

Robbie, I remembered your 'Missing Footage' thread,
so I've searched it out, and bumped it to the top
of the Forum too.
It's good to see your name in there.

With the exception of the success of the Alamo, has anything been achieved in relation to deleted scenes.

One very small snippet that I discovered was about 5 seconds of deleted scenes from the Searchers on the trailer for the movie, does anyone know of anything else?

Robbie
:agent:

Hi all,
I posted this in the True Grit thread, but Keith ask me to post here to. It is a qoute from my friends message about his memories of seeing True Grit as a child and about missinc scene.

I can still remember being nine years old and my parents taking us to the theater to see this movie. One scene I remember vividly from that first experience has been cut out of the movie. It's a little a grim, but remember when Duke is rushing the snake-bitten Mattie to the doctor? They mount Mattie's small horse and Duke drives the horse hard. In the original cut of the movie, as the horse begins to tire, Rooster takes a knife and slices a cut into the horse's flank, and then takes chewing tobacco from his mouth and rubs into the wound in an effort to spur on the poor horse more. As I saw the movie in later years, that scene was never shown, not even when released onto video tape.

I never saw it myself neither on DVD, no on VHS.

Regards,
Senta :rolleyes:

Hi Senta

He certainly does this to Matties arm, is there a chance your friend could have been mistaken?

Robbie
:agent:

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Oct 15 2006, 12:34 PM
Hi Vera,

I must admit, I was unaware of this piece.
Robbie would be interested to hear of this,
Perhaps you would be good enough
to also post your, post here
35955


Hi Robbie,

I thinks that's what happened too!

Originally posted by baron von Rassilon@Oct 17 2006, 07:08 AM
"Baby Face" has been released on DVD this week. It's more of a Barbara Stanyck Picture than John Wayne, but still worth the JW collection. It comes in a two disc (2 movies that is) set call "Forbidden Hollywood Collection".
The reason is that at the time of release it was very racy and had to be edited down to an acceptable version. I am not sure if this is the full version of the movie. I have read that they restored the movie to its full uncut version. I will let you know, or I'm sure someone will find out. I hope it is the full restored version. DeepDiscount price is 37.80.

This movie cause an uproar among the Hays committee and had to be edited. If you follow the link I have provided, you will read about the movie and see what cuts have been done to the movie. this movie also cause problems for the head of the studios to where I belive Zanuck quit. He formed his own studio call "20th Century Fox"! Or so it is said.

Here is a link to follow to read more about this racy (for 1933) movie: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Here is a write up on the movie you ought to read. [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Hope you enjoy!
36053


Hi Robbie,

Here's a post that may interest you.
A much older film, of course,
but apparently, with missing footage

Hi Keith

That was interesting, thanks for highlighting that for me. Most of the information is wasted on me however as I have yet to see this movie.

Robbie
:agent:

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Feb 3 2006, 11:11 AM
Hi,
In this Barbara Stanwyck film, Duke is 8th. in the credits,*
and seen 19 minutes, into the film!
Duke has 2 scenes, totaling less than 2 minutes of screen time.
26395


Hi Robbie,

As you can see from, I get the feeling maybe,
nothing much as been cut, to bother us,
unless of course, theye were significant
scenes involving Duke.
However from what he's seen in the film, I find that
highly unlikely!!


Baby Face ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1933

Originally posted by Danny Wilde@Dec 2 2006, 11:40 PM

I bought the official Region 0 DVD release of this movie in the 90s, and recently bought the Region 2 Warner DVD release of this movie, with a trailer as an extra and I stumbled across a strange thing: the European release is 2 hours and 16 minutes! While the Region 0 release was 2 hours 21 minutes just like the Region 1 Warner DVD release. The European DVD release was cut by 5 minutes! This is really a shame as they also deleted the biography notes that were on the Region 1 release. In the first 45 minutes of the movie they managed to cut about 3 minutes of the movie, does anyone know which scenes were cut?
37415


Hi Danny Wilde,

Thanks for your post, and bringing up this difference.
I have never compared the two, but it is
a subject that both Robbie and Rough Rider
would be keen on solving.

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Dec 2 2006, 08:20 PM
Hi Danny Wilde,

Thanks for your post, and bringing up this difference.
I have never compared the two, but it is
a subject that both Robbie and Rough Rider
would be keen on solving.
37422


Hello, Danny

I don't think Warner would release a Region 0 DVD. The studios fought for region coding so to me it sounds like the official Region 0 DVD you cited is actually DVD-/+R. Regardless, Rio Bravo is 141 minutes in film and NTSC time just like the DVD you have; the other DVD you have is 136 minutes. Let's investigate....

You say the first 45 minutes of the film had about 3 minutes cut, but are you basing this on obvious cuts or just comparing the two DVDs and their index times on your player?

The UK DVD of Rio Bravo is 136 minutes so there can only be two reasons why it's not 141 minutes: the film either has PAL speed-up (plays 4% faster) or it was cut. To determine which of these two variables will require watching the film with intimate knowledge of all the scenes, or doing sync tests using another DVD to check for PAL speed-up. An easier way to confirm PAL speed-up, although not conclusive, is to take the PAL running time and use a timecode calculator to determine NTSC time. In this case the UK DVD is 135m:13s (according to the BBFC) which translates to 140m:51s in NTSC; the Region 1 DVD runs exactly that time (give or take one or two seconds).

So it's either an incredible coincidence or the UK DVD is cut. But without analyzing the Region 2 DVD firsthand, I would says it's the same film as the Region 1 DVD -- it's just being played 4% faster.

Adding to the confusion is that the initial (1986) Warner UK home video release of Rio Bravo was heavily cut. The BBFC lists the video at 125m:03s which is equivalent to 130m:15s in film and NTSC time. So if the initial UK VHS has PAL speed-up, there's about 10 minutes cut; if it doesn't have PAL speed-up, there's about 16 minutes cut. The VHS probably does have PAL speed-up, but without analyzing the tape itself I'm just guessing. But the initial UK VHS certainly was cut, perhaps reflecting the fact that the film itself was passed with cuts in 1959, but to what degree I don't know. (The book John Wayne and the Movies, generally accurate for UK running times, makes no mention of a cut UK release. So the film was probably released theatrically over there at 141 minutes, too. But again, the initial UK VHS may reflect those theatrical cuts.)

Regardless of the initial UK video release, the 136-minute DVD most likey has PAL speed-up.

RoughRider
John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Upon reading these posts here on this thread, let me start out and say that I happen to have the complete version of the theatrical version of The Alamo with the total time of 3 hours 22 minutes from MGM/UA. It is called the restored original director's cut. This is my copy from the VHS copy that I purchased over ten years ago.

According to The Complete Films of John Wayne, they released this movie in theaters at 199 minutes (3 hours 19 minutes). I can only imagine that the 3 extra minutes is in the beginning or the intermission. As for the DVD release the running time 2 hours 42 minutes. So what happened to the other 40 minutes? I haven't compared movies to see. I haven't seen the VHS in a long time. The film company seem to have lost or had damage with the negative, so I don't know, but there must be something that can be done since I have the 202 minute version in my collection.

Let's go to the subject that Robbie is talking about. Are we talking about cuts or edits from the theater to home video or from the cutting room floor to the theater? If the latter, then I am afraid that it is probably lost forever. We see a lot of director's cut movies today, but not movies later than 30 years ago. They didn't see any need to keep such a thing because they didn't know that these would be treasures today. If we are talking about edited versions from the theaters, then it will be up to the production companies and studios to released them as they were in theaters.

I did not see Hondo back in the 50's. I wan't born yet. I didn't see it until the release on VHS in the mid 90's. So, I don't know what was cut or not except what The Complete Films of John Wayne say, and it has this movie with a running time of 84 minutes. The DVD has a run time of 83 minutes and the VHS run time is 84 minutes. I can not tell you if these movies round their minutes and seconds up or not, but we are talking about a minute difference.

Well, there is more, but I'll stop for now.

Cheers B)

Originally posted by Hondo Duke Lane@Dec 3 2006, 11:22 PM
Upon reading these posts here on this thread, let me start out and say that I happen to have the complete version of the theatrical version of The Alamo with the total time of 3 hours 22 minutes from MGM/UA.* It is called the restored original director's cut.* This is my copy from the VHS copy that I purchased over ten years ago.*

According to The Complete Films of John Wayne, they released this movie in theaters at 199 minutes (3 hours 19 minutes).* I can only imagine that the 3 extra minutes is in the beginning or the intermission.* As for the DVD release the running time 2 hours 42 minutes.* So what happened to the other 40 minutes?* I haven't compared movies to see.* I haven't seen the VHS in a long time.* The film company seem to have lost or had damage with the negative, so I don't know, but there must be something that can be done since I have the 202 minute version in my collection.*

Let's go to the subject that Robbie is talking about.* Are we talking about cuts or edits from the theater to home video or from the cutting room floor to the theater?* If the latter, then I am afraid that it is probably lost forever.* We see a lot of director's cut movies today, but not movies later than 30 years ago.* They didn't see any need to keep such a thing because they didn't know that these would be treasures today.* If we are talking about edited versions from the theaters, then it will be up to the production companies and studios to released them as they were in theaters.*

I did not see Hondo back in the 50's.* I wan't born yet. I didn't see it until the release on VHS in the mid 90's.* So, I don't know what was cut or not except what The Complete Films of John Wayne say, and it has this movie with a running time of 84 minutes.* The DVD has a run time of 83 minutes and the VHS run time is 84 minutes.* I can not tell you if these movies round their minutes and seconds up or not, but we are talking about a minute difference.

Well, there is more, but I'll stop for now.

Cheers B)
37444

To my knowledge the DVD of Hondo is the same film shown in theaters right down to the second -- it's either 83 or 84 minutes depending if the theater is half full or half empty.

A minute can make a difference, though, if the running times are accurate to the second. Encode the Hondo VHS to DVD-/+R then calculate the running time and compare it to the official DVD. Even though VHS is a rather dirty analogue format, it'll still represent an accurate time for comparison to the digital DVD. If the running times vary by more than a few seconds then there could be something cut.

As an example, the UK DVD of War of the Wildcats is 19 seconds longer than the official American VHS (the film hasn't been released on Region 1 yet). I compared both films and found the UK DVD had additional scenes which accounted for the time difference. Such minor differences reflect the varying attitudes towards censorship at the time, on both sides of the pond.

I would tend not to trust the recollections of someone who remembers a scene from many years ago -- the human mind plays tricks, especially after such a long time. Now I'm not saying such a declaration by someone is incorrect, but it's most likely the mind playing tricks. As for a trailer showing scenes not in the original film, this isn't uncommon. Another factor of potential cuts would be if the film was viewed early in its release, before cuts were made to what would become the general release print. For instance, if you saw McQ in Los Angeles or New York on its initial engagements, you would have seen the 115-minute version which was later cut to 111 minutes.

And how about people in the UK who watched The Big Trail VHS, which from 1990-1998 was the longer version than the one released on VHS in America. The initial American VHS (1988) was 112 minutes, soon cut to 108 minutes which is how it appears on DVD worldwide. Yet the UK VHS is 120 minutes, replaced in 1998 by the standard 108-minute version.

As mentioned earlier, according to the book John Wayne: All American, The Alamo's premiere in San Antonio was 206 minutes. So this was probably the longest version seen by the general public. Whether this version included more narrative or music is unknown to me. By the time it premiered in Los Angeles the film was 192 minutes, which is the print found in Toronto and released in all forms of home video except DVD (which didn't exist at the time). Interestingly, the book Spectacular: The Story of Epic Films lists the running time as 213 minutes.

I don't know what video format MGM used to archive the print found in Toronto, but it's probably not high resolution digital (not in the early 1990s). If that was the case then the studio could have easily released it to DVD and HD when they came on the scene. My guess is that it's stuck in a lower resolution digital format, perhaps not even conducive to the full glory of DVD (hopefully I'm wrong). So the Toronto print that later deteriorated from poor storage would have to be restored, then archived in high resolution digital -- ready for any future home video formats. As it stands now, the best home video source for the 192-minute version is the LaserDisc. I really wonder if MGM could release the film in all its DVD glory, or if for technical (resolution) reasons it can't be done.

RoughRider
John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Hi Rough Rider,

Here is the piece you mentioned,

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Oct 3 2006, 12:38 AM
Hi WaynamoJim,

192 Minutes.

John Wayne's- The Alamo
The Making of the Epic Film
by Donald Clark and Christopher Andersen

Don't forget on the VHS the run time of 203 mins,
also includes the Trailer!
35270



Jay J. Foraker*
post Sep 26 2006, 06:46 PM

Keith - I have a copy of that VHS uncut version as well. It makes the storyline smoother and it is in a letterbox format (though not the full letterbox that it should be). Too bad that this version cannot be shown on the big screen.
Cheers - Jay :D






this was of course also discussed in great detail
in the Movie Reviews

The Alamo ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Originally posted by Hondo Duke Lane@Dec 4 2006, 05:22 AM
Let's go to the subject that Robbie is talking about.* Are we talking about cuts or edits from the theater to home video or from the cutting room floor to the theater?* If the latter, then I am afraid that it is probably lost forever.* We see a lot of director's cut movies today, but not movies later than 30 years ago.* They didn't see any need to keep such a thing because they didn't know that these would be treasures today.* If we are talking about edited versions from the theaters, then it will be up to the production companies and studios to released them as they were in theaters.*

Cheers B)
37444


Hi Mike

I'm afraid not many older movies do contain deleted scenes on their DVD releases as an extra and not only this but alternative endings. One example is the old classic Casablanca, the Maltese Falcon as contains an different ending that was filmed but not used in the final cut.

I'm afraid its only Dukes movies that don't seem to have any deleted scenes.

:agent:

Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 3 2006, 07:29 PM
Hello, Danny

I don't think Warner would release a Region 0 DVD. The studios fought for region coding so to me it sounds like the official Region 0 DVD you cited is actually DVD-/+R. Regardless, Rio Bravo is 141 minutes in film and NTSC time just like the DVD you have; the other DVD you have is 136 minutes. Let's investigate....

You say the first 45 minutes of the film had about 3 minutes cut, but are you basing this on obvious cuts or just comparing the two DVDs and their index times on your player?

The UK DVD of Rio Bravo is 136 minutes so there can only be two reasons why it's not 141 minutes: the film either has PAL speed-up (plays 4% faster) or it was cut. To determine which of these two variables will require watching the film with intimate knowledge of all the scenes, or doing sync tests using another DVD to check for PAL speed-up. An easier way to confirm PAL speed-up, although not conclusive, is to take the PAL running time and use a timecode calculator to determine NTSC time. In this case the UK DVD is 135m:13s (according to the BBFC) which translates to 140m:51s in NTSC; the Region 1 DVD runs exactly that time (give or take one or two seconds).

So it's either an incredible coincidence or the UK DVD is cut. But without analyzing the Region 2 DVD firsthand, I would says it's the same film as the Region 1 DVD -- it's just being played 4% faster.

Regardless of the initial UK video release, the 136-minute DVD most likey has PAL speed-up.

RoughRider
John Wayne on DVD: A Filmography ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
37441


Thanks very much for your detailed answer. Sorry but I didn't spot it earlier.

I didn't know that PAL speed up was 4%! That could make up for the difference in time, assuming that the speed up is not linear. I have an "official Chinese" Region 0 version of Rio Bravo from the early years of DVD, I stopped the picture at 48 minutes and then used a different DVD Player to check the Region 2 Warner release. The same picture appeared at 45 minute, so 3 minutes were already lost in the first 45 minutes running time of the movie. That would mean the total movie would speed up 9 to 10 minutes in total if the speed up was linear (the same speed up of 4% during the total movie).

But as you mentioned although I've seen the movie maybe 12 to 15 times already I haven't compared the two versions scene by scene, I've just done an index time comparison.

Thanks for the information about the earlier UK VHS release and the reactions about the other movies from other visitors (Alamo, McQ, Big Trail). The DVD releases should have included the 'missing scenes' in unrestored version in any way. Just like they included the unremastered featurette on the DVD of McQ these things are what make DVD the most interesting medium above VHS.

Originally posted by Danny Wilde@Dec 7 2006, 07:08 AM
Thanks very much for your detailed answer. Sorry but I didn't spot it earlier.

I didn't know that PAL speed up was 4%! That could make up for the difference in time, assuming that the speed up is not linear. I have an "official Chinese" Region 0 version of Rio Bravo from the early years of DVD, I stopped the picture at 48 minutes and then used a different DVD Player to check the Region 2 Warner release. The same picture appeared at 45 minute, so 3 minutes were already lost in the first 45 minutes running time of the movie. That would mean the total movie would speed up 9 to 10 minutes in total if the speed up was linear (the same speed up of 4% during the total movie).

But as you mentioned although I've seen the movie maybe 12 to 15 times already I haven't compared the two versions scene by scene, I've just done an index time comparison.

Thanks for the information about the earlier UK VHS release and the reactions about the other movies from other visitors (Alamo, McQ, Big Trail). The DVD releases should have included the 'missing scenes' in unrestored version in any way. Just like they included the unremastered featurette on the DVD of McQ these things are what make DVD the most interesting medium above VHS.
37580

An "official Chinese" Region 0 DVD from Warner Bros. is a misnomer. It might look official but it's probably not the real McCoy. Regardless, for this discussion the main thing is that the Chinese DVD has the complete print.

PAL speed-up will always be consistent so 3 minutes in 45 minutes is too much. 45m:00s with PAL speed-up is equivalent to 46m:26s in NTSC.

Do the credits start at 0:00:00 on both DVDs? The test you did is worthless unless the index times are compensated for any offset at the start. You need to eliminate the offset variable before such a test can be deemed valid. But by the sounds of it, the offset looks to be about 1.5 minutes which doesn't make sense -- it seems too much for any introductory heralds or notices.

The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, and doesn't include any extraneous material (i.e. pure film with a few seconds of black, silent video). If the official UK DVD is uncut then that index time should be equivalent to 2:16:04 (assuming PAL speed-up is present and there's no extraneous material).

If your official UK DVD is 2:16:04 then it can be assumed the film is uncut. Mind you, it could be coincidence that the PAL to NTSC times just happen to correlate perfectly (or within a few seconds).

If I had the UK DVD myself I could confirm the presence of PAL speed-up in a few minutes. But since I don't, of course, we'll have to narrow things down by looking at the index offsets (if any) of both the Chinese and UK DVDs and their actual index times.

Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 7 2006, 03:08 PM
An "official Chinese" Region 0 DVD from Warner Bros. is a misnomer. It might look official but it's probably not the real McCoy. Regardless, for this discussion the main thing is that the Chinese DVD has the complete print.

PAL speed-up will always be consistent so 3 minutes in 45 minutes is too much. 45m:00s with PAL speed-up is equivalent to 46m:26s in NTSC.

Do the credits start at 0:00:00 on both DVDs? The test you did is worthless unless the index times are compensated for any offset at the start. You need to eliminate the offset variable before such a test can be deemed valid. But by the sounds of it, the offset looks to be about 1.5 minutes which doesn't make sense -- it seems too much for any introductory heralds or notices.

The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, and doesn't include any extraneous material (i.e. pure film with a few seconds of black, silent video). If the official UK DVD is uncut then that index time should be equivalent to 2:16:04 (assuming PAL speed-up is present and there's no extraneous material).

If your official UK DVD is 2:16:04 then it can be assumed the film is uncut. Mind you, it could be coincidence that the PAL to NTSC times just happen to correlate perfectly (or within a few seconds).

If I had the UK DVD myself I could confirm the presence of PAL speed-up in a few minutes. But since I don't, of course, we'll have to narrow things down by looking at the index offsets (if any) of both the Chinese and UK DVDs and their actual index times.
37600


The running time of the Region 0 disc (NTSC) is 2:20:36 and of the Region 2 disc (PAL) 2:15:17. Both start exactly at zero seconds. I played both discs on a Phillips DVD player and I can watch both discs alternatively because I have two cart cables attached to my TV.
I've been through the two versions of the movie and haven't found any missing scenes so speed up could be the cause of this strange difference in time.

I've got the USA release of Angel and the Badman (Laser Light version with introduction by Tony Curtis) and a Region 2 version of this movie and they differ about 1 minutes (and excluding the missing intro "Republic Pictures presents" that's not on the Region 2 disc). Can speed up differ that much between a 100 minute movie and a 140 minute movie?

Originally posted by Danny Wilde@Dec 7 2006, 04:15 PM
The running time of the Region 0 disc (NTSC) is 2:20:36 and of the Region 2 disc (PAL) 2:15:17. Both start exactly at zero seconds. I played both discs on a Phillips DVD player and I can watch both discs alternatively because I have two cart cables attached to my TV.
I've been through the two versions of the movie and haven't found any missing scenes so speed up could be the cause of this strange difference in time.

I've got the USA release of Angel and the Badman (Laser Light version with introduction by Tony Curtis) and* a Region 2 version of this movie and they differ about 1 minutes (and excluding the missing intro "Republic Pictures presents" that's not on the Region 2 disc). Can speed up differ that much between a 100 minute movie and a 140 minute movie?
37605

A correction on my part. The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, as I said earlier, but in PAL that would be 2:15:16:20. I just checked using the WFT Timecode calculator. Ignore the 20 frames at the end, although technically this is two-thirds of a second. So your UK DVD is the full version and has PAL speed-up.

As for the variances in Angel and the Badman, one minute is too much. I have various copies of the film, including the somewhat official version from the Hal Roach library, and the times don't vary by more than 10 seconds. But such minor differences are probably caused by varying reel transitions. The minute difference you mention could be an encoding issue, though.

Originally posted by RoughRider@Dec 7 2006, 05:13 PM
A correction on my part. The index time of the official Region 1 DVD of Rio Bravo is 2:20:55, as I said earlier, but in PAL that would be 2:15:16:20. I just checked using the WFT Timecode calculator. Ignore the 20 frames at the end, although technically this is two-thirds of a second. So your UK DVD is the full version and has PAL speed-up.

As for the variances in Angel and the Badman, one minute is too much. I have various copies of the film, including the somewhat official version from the Hal Roach library, and the times don't vary by more than 10 seconds. But such minor differences are probably caused by varying reel transitions. The minute difference you mention could be an encoding issue, though.
37606


Thanks a lot for your detailed reactions! I am glad that the Region 2 disc is the full version of Rio Bravo.

Originally posted by Danny Wilde@Dec 8 2006, 03:36 AM
Thanks a lot for your detailed reactions! I am glad that the Region 2 disc is the full version of Rio Bravo.
37615

You're welcome -- mystery solved.

Because I'm a picky bugger, and fumbled with some math, I'll correct what I said about 45m:00s with PAL speed-up being equivalent to 46m:26s in NTSC. It's actually 46m:52.5s.

Further to what you were saying, the Hal Roach print of Angel and the Badman is 99m:30s including the opening Republic logo and closing Republic logo (as the music ends). The film would probably have 11 reels of 35mm film, so a small variance between other DVD prints is most likely from how the reels flow into each other. A half-second or one-second difference for each reel can put the times off.

I've seen some PD titles where the reel transitions are just awful. This is something you won't see from quality labels, though. But a full minute variance in running time like you experienced is suspicious -- the film is either cut or simply runs a little faster. If properly telecined, though, it shouldn't run faster than the literal film. In the days of VHS, some cheapo labels would time-compress a film so that it took up less video tape!

With the talk about possible cut scenes in Hondo, I looked into the film's running time a little deeper.

The American Film Institute lists a footage total of 7,532' which is 83m:41s. The DVD runs 83m:23s. When 'submitted' to the UK censors on January 29, 1954, the film was 83m:25s which pretty much matches the DVD time. (The 'submitted' time, in this case, was before any cuts were made by the censors.)

Hondo was filmed in 3-D, of course, but according to the book John Wayne: American it was released 'flat' after only one week. It makes me wonder if the flat print had a few scenes cut compared to the 3-D version -- which is perhaps what the AFI lists at 7,532' or 83m:41s. I don't know the answer but the two prints vary by 18 seconds, which could account for a scene or two.

Another factor to consider is what print was viewed to notice the cuts. This really applies to people across the pond because many John Wayne films were cut for UK theatrical release. With the advent of home video, some of those cut films made it to VHS. The official UK VHS of Hondo released in 1995 had a running time of 83m:06s (based on a PAL time of 79m:47s), so it was cut. Hondo was cut for its UK theatrical release so the VHS probably reflects that fact. Without analyzing the VHS to confirm PAL speed-up, it was probably cut by 17 seconds -- this using the official DVD as a benchmark, not the longer version listed by the AFI (in which case the difference would be 35 seconds).

Now, if the US VHS was exactly the same print as the UK VHS -- they have the same cover -- then someone mentioning cuts might be referring to the VHS (or their DVD-/+R copy) and not the longer DVD. But if someone bases a cut on the DVD with memories from the past, the chance of that cut becomes more realistic.

Does anyone have the official VHS who can verify its running time? I wouldn't be surprised if it's 17 seconds or so shorter than the official DVD.

Hi,

My VCI VHS VC3462

From 1995, shows a run time of 80mins approx

Originally posted by ethanedwards@Dec 15 2006, 05:51 AM
My VCI VHS VC3462

From 1995, shows a run time of 80mins approx
37866


Hello, Keith

That's the official UK VHS by Video Collection International which runs 79m:47s in PAL (equivalent to 83m:06s in NTSC), so it's 17 seconds shorter than the DVD. If the tape doesn't have PAL speed-up then there's almost four minutes cut (which I doubt). The official US VHS released by MPI Home Video in 1994 has the same cover art, with a listed running time of 84 minutes.

I can only assume the cut running time since I don't have the VHS to analyze.

High Rough Rider

Can you explain this picture of a deleted scene from the Searchers and how it related to the overall context of the movie.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
en-US#focal=14018147bcfbb1a916cdfcc749dd566e&furl=[Only registered and activated users can see links]
analysis%2Fgraphics%2Fsearchers.jpg

Thanks

:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Dec 17 2006, 09:11 PM
Can you explain this picture of a deleted scene from the Searchers and how it related to the overall context of the movie.
37938


Regarding the image you quoted, which without the URL encodings is:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

In the documentary titled The Turning of the Earth: John Ford, John Wayne and The Searchers, included with the recent anniversary DVD, there are many 'unseen' snippets from the film. The documentary opens with a sequence that looks like the image above. So instead of the film opening with Ethan Edward's immediate arrival at the ranch house, we see him travelling the desert wasteland on his way there.

I created a thumbnail image sequence, from left to right, but for some reason can't attach it to this post. Try the link below:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Hi Rough Rider

That is quite interesting, you mentioned that the documentary featured many snippets that were not included in the final movie, can you elaborate on this a little, what scenes do you refer to?

Thanks in advance
:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Dec 18 2006, 04:15 PM
That is quite interesting, you mentioned that the documentary featured many snippets that were not included in the final movie, can you elaborate on this a little, what scenes do you refer to?
37954


In a nutshell, the 1998 documentary is comprised of -- among other things -- slate markers as scenes are about to be filmed, some with John Ford in front of the camera. These, of course, came right from the VistaVision camera although there is behind-the-scenes stuff, much of which looks to be 8mm home movies. The 33-minute documentary is very well done, brimming with wonderful footage and a pleasing narrative style. But don't expect to find any substantial deleted sequences except for what I assume to be how the film initially opened (more of Ethan riding through the desert in longshot before arriving at the ranch). Someone who has seen the film many, many times might find a few very brief revelations from the VistaVision footage, though. John Ford was known to be a very efficient director who knew what he wanted -- less of a mess on the cutting room floor.

Hi Rough Rider

I was afraid you would say that, I think the general conclsuion is that the 6 seconds of footage in the trailer for the Searchers along with an alleged sighting of John Wayne in the Alamo killing a mexican there are no further scenes in existance. Its a great shame but thats life.

:agent:

Michael Munn's book John Wayne the man behind the myth discusses how Duke directed a scene in the Quiet Man of Maureen O'haras character walking along a beach. This scene was evidentally cut from the movie prior to the films release.

:agent:

Michael Munn's book John Wayne the man behind the myth discusses how Duke directed a scene in the Quiet Man of Maureen O'haras character walking along a beach. This scene was evidentally cut from the movie prior to the films release.

:agent:

Every film has a story about cuts -- it's the nature of the business.

Just think of all those cut scenes in Stagecoach, none of which I know anything about. The John Wayne Filmography lists the film as 105 minutes, with no mention of the standard 96-minute version.

I have started one or two similar threads in the past, however I have been eager to start a new topic due to the fact I have as of late discovered two gems, deleted from two separate John Wayne movies.

The first is a picture from a deleted scene in "McQ," the image seems to involve McQ interrogating small time drug dealer Rosie for information, the image and some additional reading can be found here ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).

The second one comes courtesy of our very own GT12PAK when he posted the trailer for "Hondo ([Only registered and activated users can see links])". I am almost 100% certain that the scene between Mrs Lowe and Hondo was not in the final cut of this movie. I really hope I'm not proved wrong.

Has anyone else discovered any deleted footage from Dukes movies?

:agent:

I don't know if was the same then as it is now, but a lot of times they create footage exclusively for the trailers. And sometimes there are as you know promo shots for the movies.
Thank you for the link to the McQ photo, I will see if I can be of any use to this thread.

I took another look at the "Hondo" trailer and there is a scene within it which shows John Wayne on his horse riding fast during which he fires a snap shot behind him with his handgun, this is also not in the actual movie.

:agent:

It's been a while since I watched this one, so I can't comment on the deleted scene. Perhaps we should have watched this movie with 3-D glasses to see the scene.:wink_smile:

I just viewed my copy of "Hondo" and I can confirm the scenes I mentioned above are NOT in the final cut, this was a great find on your behalf Gt12pak.

:agent:

Robbie,

Which scene between Mrs. Lowe and Hondo was not in the movie?

You guessed it - I haven't seen it in quite awhile.

I'll answer that, if you don't mind, Robbie. The part in the trailer where Duke kisses Mrs. Lowe and telles her "A woman like you ought to be kissed like that...befor she dies." Nope, I don't remember that being in the film at all. Has to be a deleted scene. Good catch, Robbie.

Mark

Nice find, Robbie on the McQ picture, though I must confess when I went to the link the first thing I noticed was the picture of Elke Sommer to the immediate right of the McQ pic. WOW!!!!!!!!!! :wub: :wub: :wink_smile: :thumbs_up:

Nevertheless it was interesting to see the pic from McQ (when I finally got around to seeing it!) and to speculate about where this potential scene could have fit into the plot of the movie.

It was interesting to see the pictures from The Great Escape, as well.

Robbie,

Which scene between Mrs. Lowe and Hondo was not in the movie?

You guessed it - I haven't seen it in quite awhile.

Hi Chester

As Mark pointed out above its the scene in which Hondo tells Mrs Lowe "A woman like you outta kiss a man before she dies", after some analysis I have discovered it is defiantly not in the film.

Since joining the board I have been searching for this, I was told that such scenes didn't exist and now my search has resulted in triumph, I was truly ecstatic when I first watched the trailer so much so that I almost fell off my seat.

:agent:

I retrieved information on my original search for deleted scenes within John Wayne's movies, it actually began with my first post within this forum on April 15th 2003.

Its taken almost five years to find anything, I feel like Ethan Edwards at the end of his long search, for anyone that's interested here ([Only registered and activated users can see links])is my first post.

As Jim has pointed out my English was terrible, I truly hope it has improved a little since then.

:agent:

As Jim has pointed out my English was terrible, I truly hope it has improved a little since then.

Rob, my friend, your language skills have improved ten thousand percent since I first came on the board. Hell, you could probably give me some pointers now and I'm pretty vain about my proficiency in the English language. :teeth_smile:

Hello Robbie.
I think that collectting deleted scenes is sure interresting.
In the book"The Official John Wayne Refference Book",
there is a contents Wayne on the cutting room floor,
The scenes pictured are from The Alamo,El Dorado,The Undefeated,
The Cowboys and McQ.
But, deleted scene is deleted scene.There some moments that were never used.
These moments only dropped down on the cutting room floor.
Publicity still,press kit photos and trailers seem to me that had taken by the staff
besides the original photography members and by another angle, by another time
to promote the film work.
It should appreciate this as a work besides the original though DVD of director's cut
long version is often released on the market later.
What is important is deeply affection when watch the film (the final cut) in the theatre,
i think.
Robbie, if i made a rude things because of my poor English, I'm sorry.

Regards,
H.sanada

. . . if i made a rude things because of my poor English, I'm sorry.

Regards,
H.sanada
Thank you so much for your pertinent comments in this thread, and letting us know about the part regarding deleted scenes in The Official John Wayne Reference Book.

And please . . . don't ever apologize for your English skills . . . I wager they are 1000 times better than the Japanese skills of anybody here! :teeth_smile: I know I would not be able to participate on a Japanese message board.

Regards,

Chester :newyear:

Thank you so much for your pertinent comments in this thread, and letting us know about the part regarding deleted scenes in The Official John Wayne Reference Book.

And please . . . don't ever apologize for your English skills . . . I wager they are 1000 times better than the Japanese skills of anybody here! :teeth_smile: I know I would not be able to participate on a Japanese message board.

Regards,

Chester :newyear:
O.K.Jim,
From The Official John Wayne Reference Book
I don't have a scanner,so I'll post the transcription .

The Alamo:Wayen,Chill Wills,Hank Worden and Widmark look to see the merchant Emil and his men enter the church.Emil's plan is to kill all of the above because they have discovered his secret of stored powder and guns.

The Green Berets:This scene with Vera Miles was also dropped. Miles portrays Wayne's wife.During the course of the film they met in this brief sequence.

The Undefeated:Wayne and John Agar part ways in this scene.Agar seemed to appear when tthe script needed him but his disappearance was a mystery.
Wayne refers to two comrades that won't live by Christmas.Perhaps Agar's character was one of them.

El Dorado:Charlene Holt,Wayne,Robert Mitchum and Paul Fix appear to be having a good time.This sequence occurs befire Wayne leaves.El Dorado after being shot by Michele Carey. (I missed this good scene!!.like Rio Bravo,they are singing?)
This scene with Wayen and MIchele Carey is also missing,She is holding the rifle she shot Wayne with.

The Cowboys:Wayne takes a fall,perhaps from "Crazy Alice". and Wayne and A.Martinez encounter a bear while checking the trail ahead . The bear had disappeared from the final print.

McQ: Wayne encounters a woman at the reception desk at the hospital. Diana Muldaur looms over the woman's shoulder. I suspect Wayne is trying to find where his partner is after being shot.Muldaur plays the wife of the wounded detective.In the final version,Wayne and Muldaur are in the hospital room.

Regards,
H.sanada

The scene from The Alamo you mentioned can be seen in The Directors Cut of The Alamo. And the only way to get that is either a VHS double cassette or a DVD you can probably buy off of E-Bay. And there is more to that scene. Emil Sand and his two cohorts get the drop on Crockett, Bowie, Beekeeper, Smithy and, Parson but, he ends up with Bowies famous knife in his chest to close it out. There are about at least another 6-8 scenes that were deleted from the film that most everybody has seen. The bad part about that, though is, none of them are battle scenes. And believe me, there were battle scenes filmed that ended up on the cutting room floor and are probably gone forever.

The scene from The Alamo you mentioned can be seen in The Directors Cut of The Alamo. And the only way to get that is either a VHS double cassette or a DVD you can probably buy off of E-Bay. And there is more to that scene. Emil Sand and his two cohorts get the drop on Crockett, Bowie, Beekeeper, Smithy and, Parson but, he ends up with Bowies famous knife in his chest to close it out.

WaynamoJim
Thanks for your info.
This book I mentioned was published in 1985,
i suppose that the directors cut of The Alamo was released after that.
My dvd of The Alamo have 162 minutes long ,I 'll search the scene.

Regards,
H.sanada

H. Sanada, Like I said, you might be able to find either the VHS tape or DVD on E-Bay. I've had the VHS for years, when it first came out. I believe that was around 1992, I'm not entirely positive. The DVD I got off of E-Bay about 5 years ago. I think it's made in Asia and might be copied off the VHS. When I bought it, I believe it came from Singapore and it was only $5 American. For being so cheap, it's picture quality is pretty good and even has Dolby sound. What it doesn't have that the VHS tape has is the opening, intermission and, exit music and, the documentary about the making of the movie. Good luck finding it.

Thanks a lot WaynamoJim,
I have the ploblem of region code. In Japan region code 1 DVD can't seen.
But, I am lucky because i have 202-minutes version laser disc set
which is restored original directors cut version by 70mm print and dolby surround.
Anyway, which version of The Alamo we must certify? It's difficult
162-minute, 192-minute or 202 -minute version ?
Perhaps, i watced 192-minute version in the thatre 1963 in Japan.

Regards,
H.sanada

Hi Robbie,
I remember you mentioning these scenes to me before,
but at that time, we had no idea, if there were any, or how to find them,
I have also gone back and looked over your original thread,
and moved it over here with your others.
If you like, I could merge all the three threads,
and make one STICKY thread relating,
specifically to Duke's Deleted Scenes,
and in that way, it will always be in topic.

If you would like to suggest a title, I will rename it for you,
however you will still remain the author of that thread!

Just to bump up Robbie's original thread!

Hi Robbie,
I remember you mentioning these scenes to me before,
but at that time, we had no idea, if there were any, or how to find them,
I have also gone back and looked over your original thread,
and moved it over here with your others.
If you like, I could merge all the three threads,
and make one STICKY thread relating,
specifically to Duke's Deleted Scenes,
and in that way, it will always be in topic.

If you would like to suggest a title, I will rename it for you,
however you will still remain the author of that thread!

Keith

That sounds good, would it be possible to keep the bulk of the deleted scenes in the first post of the merged thread? I feel that the point of the topic would be diluted by having the information scattered throughout the thread.

:agent:

Hi Robbie,
I could possibly put the links to the deleted scenes in a Sticky thread,
and form an ordinary thread for discussion.
Obviously I can't delete, members ordinary posts.
is that what you had in mind?

Much of the discussion relating to missing scenes,
particulally The Alamo, has been
discussed in an earlier thread.
Much of which is repeated.
We now have three threads regarding this subject,
and I think for the sake of continuity,
and to have all the information under one roof,
I will merge at least the two Alamo related threads together.
Robbie's threads may then be hopefully
merged into one, when I have consulted him

Hey Robbie, I was answering a question from Jim in the McQ movie thread when I realised that the missing scene you have mentioned befor between McQ and Rosie the informant (you have linked to a photo of McQ holding Rosie down on his bed) is in the book. I had forgot about it untill now. The book is a novelization from the screenplay, so the scene must have been originally shot for the film and then left on the cutting room floor. But it still made it into the book. I'm with you in hoping that somewhere there is still a copy of that scene. Just thought I would let you know.

Mark

Hi,

Here's a couple of posts made in The Alamo thread made by,
Myself and Waynamao Jim, which will note the deleted scenes from The Alamo


Originally posted by ethanedwards@Jan 24 2006, 02:50 AM

On the Cutting Room Floor

There are 12 scenes totalling 31 minutes cut from the original release,
which ran 192+ minutes.

1.A drunken Bowie, finds Travis in charge.
2.Travis and Dickinson, discuss, Jefferson.
3.Emil, is killed by Crockett, who tells Flaca, the news.
4.Flaca and Mrs. Guy, talking, as settlers leave.
5.Bowie defends Smitty.
6.Crockett and Bowie, discuss pyrotechnics.
7.Crockett tells Flaca, about a ridgepole.
8.Travis and Bowie argue as Bonham arrives.
9.A patrol suffers casualties,re-inforcements arrive, and Lisa Dickinsons Birthday party.
10.The parson dies, as Crockett prays.
11.Religious beliefs are discussed, before the battle.
12.A line of dialogue by Bowie, is missing as the North wall falls/

Other cuts include, the Overture,Intermission, and End music.

I have the full version, and it certainly enhances and makes the story line
much more flowing, with these pieces restored.

Old January 24th, 2006, 03:48 AM
WaynamoJim

You're right Keith, it does. Wouldn't it be great if they found some more lost footage, especially the battle scenes I mentioned. There's even one, and you can see it on the documentary on the DVD and VHS Directors Cut that shows Wayne grabbing the head off a lance of one Mexican lancer and throwing into the chest of another right after he comes down from the flag pole hill. I also have a tape which I've since recorded to DVD of some home movies taken by one of the extras on the movie that shows Crockett on the flag pole hill and you can see the Mexicans flooding into the plaza from the north wall area. As it pans to the left, you can see Mexicans on the southwest corner begin to turn the cannon around to fire at the long barracks. All that film is probably long gone now and that's a shame. It would've certainly added to the scope of the battle.

This subject has been discussed in much greater detail previously in

The Alamo ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

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