Hi,
I would like to let everyone know that starting May 2nd the National Firearms Museum in Fairfax Virginia will have a display called Guns West. They have historic guns from the old west, SASS guns and movie guns on display. In the movie gun part they have three John Wayne large loop Winchesters, one from Stagecoach also one from True Grit and Rooster Cogburn, and one from Batjac productions. They also have a Winchester from Rio Lobo, a shotgun from Big Jake, a Remington from The Big Trail along with other guns, the hat from The Undefeated, coats from Rio Lobo and the Shootist and and a eye patch from True Grit. I saw the show this weekend and it was great. If you like John Wayne and the guns that he used you have to see it. I was told it will be there until the end of the year. It is worth the trip.

Chris

Hello Chris I wonder where the items came from and where they will go after the show closes. It sure sounds like a great exhibit. I went into a Military museum in Hawaii once and that was very interesting, with exhibits from both World Wars

Hi Kilo 6
The items came from private collections and I don't know if they are moving elsewhere after this exhibit is over. They have a nice catalog showing everything if you can't get to Virginia, just go on line and look up the National Firearms Museum and give them a call.

Chris

thanks for the suggestion Murray

Here is a Story and Pictures of Some of John Wayne's Pistols and Rifles that was in "The American Rifle" Magazine a year or so back, and some of His Guns and Other Things at my house at The 26 Bar Ranch.
:wink_smile:
http://www.ranch26bar.com/DUKEGUNS1.html

Chilibill
:cowboy:

Chilibill,

Thanks again for another informative post!

Some question for you please.

In the picture of Duke's boots you show where the right boot is built up. Did Duke have a foot problem that required the leather to be built up on his right shoe?

The article talks about 5 in 1 blank cartridges. What are those? I've never heard of such a thing.

When the writer talks about the gun belt being a hollow money belt, what does that mean?

Thanks again Chilibill!

Regards,

Tbone,
Duke Did Not have a Foot Problem, but He did have Knee Problems from His Old Football Days and walked on the side of His foot.
:wink_smile:
The 5 in 1 Blank Cartridge Looks like a Real Cartridge but the Front where the Bullet would be Opens up were it is Crimped, if they Need Recoil like Simi- Auto Weapons Need.
(bump)
In the old days in the Movies they just used a Real Shell with No Bullet and Loaded it with Black Powder with a Wad, but the Gun Did Not have any Recoil and just made a lot of Smoke and Noise !
:yeaahh:
In the Old West they made the Gun Belt Hollow so that it could be Used As A Money Belt Also, and Duke Liked This kind of Gun Belt !!!
:teeth_smile:
Bill

Thanks the info Chilibill!

I never thought of the possibility of a gun built also serving as a money belt.
I guess you couldn't get much safer than that huh? Makes good sense to me.

Thanks again!

Tbone,
I found some pictures of the 5 in 1 Blank Cartridge both Pistol and Rifle.
http://www.ranch26bar.com/5_IN_1.html


Bill
:cowboy::cowboy:

Interesting Chilibill.

They look like the blanks you use for nail guns only bigger.

Thanks for posting!

Tbone
5 in 1 blanks are the blanks that are used for western films because they will fit pistols in calibers 38/40, 44/40 and 45 colt and in rifles they fit 38/40 and 44/40. The blanks that Chilibil showed are not the type that are used in the movie business. The 5 in 1 blanks that came from the rental houses had a flat tip on them. The firearms that were used in films were real firearms so the blanks had to fit more then one calibers, that is why they came up with 5 in 1 blanks. I hope this explanes what 5 in 1 blanks are.

Chris

Chris, It sounds like You Have done some Film or T.V. work ! I have done work in many also, both Westerns and Aviation Films. :wink_smile:

But to say that the Cartridges that I showed on the Web-Page that I put up, and to say that they were never used in films is Not True, Because I have used them myself in some of the Old Aviation Films that I flew in. :angel:

In the Old Western Films that I was in in the Late 1940s they would have a Prop Man on Location that would sometime Load the type of Powder Charge that the Director wanted for the Scene that they were shooting. And in the 1980s when we were doing the "Gunfighters" Series for Hearst A.B.C. and that I Directed we had a Prop Man on location with us to load the type of Charge that we wanted, like if we were Indoors, Outdoors or at Night. :tounge_smile:

And what you said about the 5 - 1 Cartridges was true, and if you go to the Site Below and then to the Bottom of the Page, is what the Encyclopedia has to say about the 5 -in 1 Cartridge ! :teeth_smile:


http://www.ranch26bar.com/5_IN_1.html


Chilibill
:cowboy:

Which large loop winchester does the Natl. cowboy hall have of the Dukes or what films was it used in?

Chilibill, where are the engraved pistols the duke used in the shootist?

Chilibill
Most studios had there own armory's and would rent the guns to what ever production was being filmed, but not all studios made there own blanks. Stembridge gun rentals made blanks for a lot of studios and had both black power and flash power blanks. Stembridge was located at Paramount until the late 70s and then they moved to Glendale Ca,. Stembridge and also Ellis Mercantile supplied blanks in different loads, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full loads. The 5 in 1 blanks they made had a rounded end with a flat tip, that made them look like real round nose flat tip bullets. Remington even sold 5 in 1 blanks in this style in full load. Stembridge still supplies blanks to the film business in this style but there is new suppliers that sell the 5 in 1 blanks with the crimped tip like you showed, that style is new to the business, and were not around when John Wayne was making westerns.

Chris.

brick,
There are 2 large loop Winchesters at The Cowboy Hall Of Fame. The one that is on display is the one with an 18 1/2" barrel that was cut down for John Wayne to use in the film Stagecoach. The Hall also has one with a 20" barrel that he used in most of his later films that is not on display but you can see it in the R.L. Wilson book called "Winchester". The engraved guns from the Shootist are also on display at The Cowboy Hall Of Fame. You should go see them they look great.

Chris

brick, There were two sets of Pistols made for the Film "The Shootist" one Set with 4 and 3/4 " Barrels and those are in the Cowboy Hall of Fame and One of the Pistols from the Other Set I have at John Wayne's 26 Bar Ranch in Eastern Arizona with a 5 and 1/2" Barrel and will Soon be at a New Museum.
:teeth_smile:
Most of the Pistols that Duke used in His Later Films were in His Collection at His House in Newport Beach, California, and I saw them Many Time when I would Pick Him up at Newport Beach to Fly Him to His Red River Ranch in Southern Arizona and His other 26 Bar Ranch here in Eastern Arizona, and Duke would get Very Upset if He had to use Studio Guns in his Later Films !
:wacko:
If you would like to take a look at some of Duke's Pistols and Rifles that I have in My collection at The 26 Bar Ranch You Can Go To

http://www.ranch26bar.com/DUKE_GUNS1.html

Chilibill
:cowboy:

Chris and brick,

Here are a PISTOL and RIFLE of Duke's That I Wished I Did Have in my Collection, But Do Not !!!
:ohmy:

http://www.ranch26bar.com/DUKESPISTOL.html

Chilibill
:cowboy:

wow, Chilibill you have a most magnificent collection. I have got to get out to the 26 bar to see your collection. The money I'm spending on medicine for the next year, I could give a hefty bid. My wife said oh yeah quit your treatment to buy one of Dukes guns and when you die next year,I'll sell it so I can bury you. She just doesn't know how a man feels. I hoping I can hit the lottery before the auction ends. Thanks for the photo's Bill.

You know, the civilian in Japan can't have the gun by the law.
so, i can not buy Duke's gun ,umfortunately!
BTW, movie gun is a real gun? really same as old west gun?
is Colt SAA produced about when?(or when duke's gun was made)
black powdrer used in wild west is still be using at the movie shooting at present?

H.sanada

H sanada, I know that you Can Not have Real Guns in Japan, but I sent a Non-Shooter Colt Movie Gun Home with My Friend that lives in Nirita, Japan, and Every time my Friends come from Japan They want to Go Out And Shoot the Colt Pistols.
:teeth_smile:
Most of the Movie Shooter Pistols are Real Guns and are Copys of the First Old West Guns.
:wink_smile:
The First Colt S.A.A. Pistols "Single Action Army" were First made in 1873 and were the Army Horse Soldier Official Pistols with a 7 and 1/2" Barrels.
:wink:
Yes they still use Black Powder in the Westerns, But in the More Modern Times they use a Form of what is Called Smoke - Less Powder !
:ohmy:
Chilibill
:cowboy:

Here is a Story about John Wayne's Last Film "The Shootist" and at the bottom of the Page is a Good Picture of one of the Pistols that are now in the Cowboys Hall Of Fame.
:ohmy:
You can see how large of Hand Duke Had !!!
:teeth_smile:
And at the Bottom of the Second Page is a Very Rare only Known Picture of Duke's Funeral !
:cry2:


http://www.ranch26bar.com/THESHOOTIST.html

Chilibill
:cowboy:

H sanada, I know that you Can Not have Real Guns in Japan, but I sent a Non-Shooter Colt Movie Gun Home with My Friend that lives in Nirita, Japan, and Every time my Friends come from Japan They want to Go Out And Shoot the Colt Pistols.
:teeth_smile:
Most of the Movie Shooter Pistols are Real Guns and are Copys of the First Old West Guns.
:wink_smile:
The First Colt S.A.A. Pistols "Single Action Army" were First made in 1873 and were the Army Horse Soldier Official Pistols with a 7 and 1/2" Barrels.
:wink:
Yes they stll use Black Powder in the Westerns, But in the More Modern Times they use a Form of what is Called Smoke - Less Powder !
:ohmy:
Chilibill
:cowboy:
Thank you for your information,Chilibill
i'm interested in Non shooter Colt S.A.A. movie gun because i'm in Japan as you know.
and I envy your friend. i wonder how to obtain this kind of gun in Japan.
Is it a replica?
by the way,i searched the site about Colt SAA. It has been understood that
this gun did a change at least 4 times.
1873-1940 1st generation
1956-1974 2nd generation
1976-1981 3rd generation
1992- 4th generation and 2nd generation is said the best.
do you know what generation SAA Duke had?

Regards,
H.sanada

H. sanada,
I will see if I can find one of the Companys that make these Movie No-Shooter Replica Colt S.A.A. that will Ship to Japan ?
:glare:
The Later Colt Single Action Army Pistols were much Stronger that the Older Ones Made Before World War Two .
:wink_smile:
Duke had amost all of the Older and Newer Colts.
:teeth_smile:

Bill
:cowboy:

Hi Bill,
I thank you for your kindness.
and hope that good news can be heard.
If i had enough money and time,i would go to 26-Bar ranch ,play gunshot right now.

regards,
H.sanada

Here is somthing that we have not talked about in some time now, Duke's Pistols, with some new Pictures.
:wink_smile:
http://www.ranch26bar.com/DUKESPISTOL.html

Chilibill
:cowboy:

Hi,
I went to Washington DC this weekend, and one of the museums that I went to see was The National Firearms Museum in Fairfax Virginia right outside of Washington. I have always liked guns and this is a great museum if you like firearms of any kind. The display they have right now is called Hollywood Guns and it has been there for about a year and it is going to be there till the end of the year. In the display they have guns from The Big Trail and Gunga Din to The Book Of Eli and the new Pubic Enemies. In the display I would say of all of the films and actors represented in the display there is more John Wayne guns or guns used in John Wayne films then any other. They have pistols he used from The Big Trail, True Grit and Rio Lobo and large loop Winchesters from Stagecoach, True Grit, Big Jake and Rio Lobo. They have a Trapdoor Springfield Carbine from She Wore A Yellow Ribbon a sawed off shot gun from Big Jake and they even have the Mac 10 machine gun from McQ. They also have costumes from Rio Lobo and The Undefeated and that is just a small part of the John Wayne items and guns on display. If you are lucky enough to be in the DC area I would recommend going to see the Hollywood Guns display if you are a John Wayne fan.
Chris

First Post!

I am curious about the Winchesters.
Chuck Conner's Winchester in The Rifleman, had
"another modification . . . since the 92 rifle is a top eject meaning the top is completely open when the lever is cocked forward and the empty shells are ejected straight up in the air when the lever is pulled towards you. (I think they mean when the lever is pushed forward. When pulling toward you the breech would be closing and chambering a round.) When the rifle was swing cocked down by Chuck Connors side the rifle cartridges would have fallen to the ground when he had it upside down. So they had a rifle with a special plunger built inside that would hold a bullet in place for this trick."http://www.riflemansrifle.com/therifle.htm
Picture of the mod on Page 3
http://www.riflemansrifle.com/may1960.htm

The same would hold true for "spin cocking" because as one point the breech is open pointing downward. The movie that gets a lot of "spin cocking" is True Grit when Cogburn is riding against Ned Pepper.

Did any of John Wayne's rifles have this plunger modification? You would think that they had to. I would really like to see a picture of that instead of just the drawing.

O'l Kev, first of all Welcome to the JWMB.
I am do not in anyway have any knowledge in guns,
but hopefully some of our members can help.

We do have a dedicated thread:
Classic TV Westerns - The Rifleman (http://www.dukewayne.com/showthread.php?t=3947)

and this is what it says on there.

* The Rifleman's Rifle The trick feature of the rifle was a screw pin attached to the large loop lever which was positioned so as to trip the trigger when the ring was slammed home, thus allowing Lucas to rapid-fire the rifle, similarly to a semi-automatic pistol. The trigger trip screw pin was also used in two configurations. Sometimes Chuck had the screw head turned inside close to the trigger. Most of the times he had it on the outside of the trigger guard with a lock nut on the outside to further secure its position. In some of the episodes the screw was taken out completely when rapid fire action was not needed. When properly adjusted, this screw “squeezed” the trigger when the lever was fully closed. From:The Rifleman's Rifle Website

O'l Kev, first of all Welcome to the JWMB.
I am do not in anyway have any knowledge in guns,
but hopefully some of our members can help.

We do have a dedicated thread:
Classic TV Westerns - The Rifleman (http://www.dukewayne.com/showthread.php?t=3947)

and this is what it says on there.

NOPE - This is different. The part you are talking about is on the lever itself. That screw is what trips the trigger when the lever is cycled and closes the breech.

The plunger is a little spring loaded device that is just above the chamber. It extends once the breech is opened and keeps the shells from dropping to the ground when the gun is upside down when swing cocking or spin cocking. It has to be long enough to keep the shells from dropping out but short enough to allow empty cases to eject.

Hi,
I have done some research on movie guns over the years and I saw a drawing of the spring or plunger for a Winchester 1892 you were talking about at Stembridge gun rentals in Ca,. They told me that they made up a 92 carbine with that system on it for the show but it never worked very well. If you watch the beginning of the Rifleman he shoots the gun till it is emty then he spins it. I can't remember any time that he spun it and then fired it but I could be wrong. The John Wayne Winchester 92 carbines that were used in True Grit were not modified with the spring so he could shoot and spin, if you watch the seen frame by frame you can never see the carbine go off more then once before they cut to another shot. That is movie magic.The two Winchester 1892 carbines that John Wayne used in True Grit are on display at The National Firearms Museum in Fairfax Va, along with a Riflemans gun and none of the carbines have been modified.
I hope I helped answer your question.
Chris