Despite his not-so-good reputation, I admit that I love to listen to Sinatra's music, particularly anything he recorded for Capitol in the 1950s. I am curious about the relationship between he and Duke, as I've seen lots of pictures of them together at Hollywood parties and the like and they always smile big for the camera, though apparently they didn't much care for each other.

I've read a couple of different tidbits, which I will have to paraphrase from memory. At IMDb, it says that Duke was staying at a hotel in Las Vegas and FS was in the suite below him having a party and making a whole heckuva lot of noise. After repeated polite attempts to get them to be quiet, Duke went down to Sinatra's suite in person and, for lack of a better word, sucker-punched one of Sinatra's big beefy bodyguards and knocked him unconscious. After this incident, Sinatra and his cronies kept it down.

I don't have any biographies on Duke. Maybe someday I'll get into reading them but for now I just enjoy learning about his movies. But somebody sent me a used copy of a Sinatra biography (which I've never read) and I peeked into it just to see what it said about Duke. Not much - just that they had some argument over a film Sinatra was making. Apparently he wanted to hire a screenwriter with communist ties and Duke was making a ruckus about it in the arena of public opinion. Sinatra, who was only about 5'7" and pretty darned scrawny (albeit rather scrappy), ran into Duke at a party and tried to instigate a fight with him over it. Duke tried to be a gentle giant and smooth things down, saying "Now, Frank, we'll talk about this later." Instead, Sinatra threw a tantrum and went out in the parking lot, where he proceeded to walk in front of a moving car and then accused the driver of trying to run him over.

Nice guy, huh? Obviously I'm inclined to think that Duke was a much better person. But does anybody know anything else? No big deal, I'm just kind of curious. They are two of the 20th century's biggest icons, despite what that stupid list VH1 put out might say to the contrary. (Oprah, my behonkey!)

hi jen,

to be honest i have never had time for fs as to me he bought his way into movies with his so called connections with those of a not so nice character, some of his music was good but here in aust he got kicked out when he came to visit because of something he was supposed to have said to one of our polies.

so of the two duke was the best man and as you said tried to be the gentle gaint

cheers smokey

Hi,
What I have found in Aissa's book about her father, it says in regards to people visiting Wayne in the hospital. Frank Sinatra, meanwhile, was deemed a suitable guest, despite that he and my father had never been close. Although it was no real fault of his own, I found Mr. Sinatra's visit especially upsetting. The day he arrived wiht his wife, my father wasn't prepared yet to see them, so Barbara and Frank chatted with us in the waiting room next door. Mr. Sinatra was upbeat, and definitely "on." "Nice to meet ya, he said. "How you doin?" You know, I haven't seen your dad in a while. When told her father was ready, the Sinatras slipped in his room. When they returned Sinatra the performer had been replaced by a shaken man with tears in his eyes. She also says that sometimes her mother and father would dance listening to their favorite music which included Frank Sinatra's songs.
I do myself like listening to Sinatra. I know he had his faults most people do including myself but I would never say anything demeaning about Sinatra. We do think alot of John Wayne and probably always will but, I do admit that he too had his own faults and I'm sure if he could be with us he would say the same thing.
Little Duke

Duke, and Frank had political differences, which really showed in the 1960 election of Kennedy and Nixon. Duke was a Nixon man, and Frank, a Kennedy man. No matter what you call it, they were different in that arena.

Never did a movie together, but there were common interest between them. Duke considered Sinatra his favorite singer, which I do understand. Frank was considered at the time (1940's & 50's) the king of pop (popular music). They both liked Dean Martin. Of course Martin was closer to Sinatra due to the music connection.

They did appeared in public with photo shoots together which appeared to be of a mutual friendship, but I am sure that was only because of their legency status. Duke had many liberal friends, and Sinatra may have been one of them, but they were like oil and water. I do believe that they had respect for each other's craft.

But they had some incidents, which I knew of one listed, but wasn't aware of the other. I am interested in the connection of the two. I hope others might share, and post. I will look up my bio, and get back with you.

Cheers, Hondo B)

Ok, after some digging, I came up with a few stories. Back in 1960, Sinatra hired Albert Maltz (one of the infamous Hollywood Ten) to write a screenplay for the planned movie The Execution of Private Slovik . The story shows the military in a very unfavorable light, which we all know Duke hated having that done! Duke was quoted in the papers saying "I wonder how Sinatra's crony, Senator John Kenedy, feels about Sinatra hiring such a man? I'd like to know Kenedy's attitude, because he's the one who is making plans to run the administrative government of our country." Faced with all the presure he was receiving, Sinatra wound up paying Maltz $75,000 NOT to write the screenplay. The next time Sinatra and Duke were at a benefit together, Sinatra, who had been drinking heavily, walked up to Duke and said, "You seem to disagree with me." duke replied "Take it easy. We can talk about this later." Sinatra said "what about right now?" but friends seperated the two. Years later, Sinatra had campaigned for Reagan to be Govenor of California. Duke was surprised by Frank's political party switch, but welcomed him into the liberal fold hoping he would be more loyal to his new political friends then he was his old ones. I got these little tidbits out of Pilar Wayne's book John Wayne: My Life With The Duke Anyone else know any other stories? Dukefan1

Ah, very interesting stories everyone - thanks! I certainly didn't mean to outright slam Frank, since it's certainly not my place to judge, but at the same time, there are some things that aren't so pleasant and are pretty much established facts. Having said that, I know he did a lot of good things for charity and he could really be a great guy when he wanted to be. It also appears that Sinatra had a pretty abnormal childhood and stuff happens...

Interesting that both of these men should wind up supporting Reagan later on - Sinatra certainly changed his mind about some things. And I don't know... I would certainly define myself as politically conservative, but back in those days ('40s, '50s etc.), I think being a liberal was different. My immediate family is conservative, but I come from a long line of hardcore Roosevelt/Truman Democrats and good ol' southern Dixiecrats. My grandmother, whom I've already mentioned as being a lifelong fan of John Wayne, is definitely a Dixiecrat. So it's nice to hear that Duke could be on friendly terms with people who didn't always share his beliefs.

Well, if anyone's got more stories, keep 'em comin'.

Hondo

Sinatra and Duke did do one movie together it was called 'Cast A Giant Shadow'.

I have heard that they didn't like each other and I reported the Sinatra bodyguard/Duke incident before.

However I read on a web site about that other incident and it claimed that despite Dukes best attempts to avoid a dispute they ended up in a punch up. I'm not sure if that storys true however but I will try and locate the site.

If anyone has any more information about the ralationship between these two men please state it here I am quite interested in this topic and I have little knowledge of it. I'm sure Roland knows plenty and I am looking forward to that input by the way where is Roland two weeks is long up.

:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Sep 4 2003, 04:23 PM
I'm sure Roland knows plenty and I am looking forward to that input by the way where is Roland two weeks is long up.

:agent:
I think Roland is back from vacation, because I saw him lurking a day or so ago. If he does like I do, he starts with the oldest new post and works his way forward.

Around this place, that could take a week just to catch up :uhuh: !

Or maybe he was able to log in while still on vacation, and isn't really home yet after all. :(

Chester

OK OK, here I am.
I think, summing up biografies, JW and Sinatra were quite friendly together.

Asked about his favorite singer in an interview once, JW answered: For my money, it's Frank Sinatra.

They didn't actually cross paths making Cast a Giant Shadow but JW was essential in helping the film getting made, so he had some saying in casting (check out the very very funny book the director wrote about the making of: "How to Make a Jewish Movie")

They were invited in the 70s to Frank Sinatra's house, and JW went with Pat Stacy, actually bought her a new outfit for that evening, Pat wore a new fur JW picked out for her personally, she describes that in her biography.

The JW biography by George Carpozi tells a different tale about the fighting incident in which somebody got hurt, but then Carpozi was out to hurt the JW image and was inaccurate in other places of the book.

Roland

Its good to have you back again. Do you know if there is any truth in the Duke/Sinatra bodyguard story some people have told me that it is nonsense.

:agent:

Originally posted by A Girl Named Jen@Sep 3 2003, 10:28 AM
I don't have any biographies on Duke.* Maybe someday I'll get into reading them but for now I just enjoy learning about his movies.* But somebody sent me a used copy of a Sinatra biography (which I've never read) and I peeked into it just to see what it said about Duke.* Not much - just that they had some argument over a film Sinatra was making.* Apparently he wanted to hire a screenwriter with communist ties and Duke was making a ruckus about it in the arena of public opinion.* Sinatra, who was only about 5'7" and pretty darned scrawny (albeit rather scrappy), ran into Duke at a party and tried to instigate a fight with him over it.* Duke tried to be a gentle giant and smooth things down, saying "Now, Frank, we'll talk about this later."* Instead, Sinatra threw a tantrum and went out in the parking lot, where he proceeded to walk in front of a moving car and then accused the driver of trying to run him over.
Jen,

According to John Wayne:American bio, on May 13, 1960 at the Moulin Rouge, a number of stars gathered at the nightclub for a $100-a-plate benefit for retarded children. This was a costume party and Duke came as a cowboy, and Sinatra as an Indian. Wayne duing the evening sang, "Red River Valley", and Sinatra crooned "The Lady is a Tramp." the two almost came to blows when Sinatra kept badgering Duke about "minding his own business." Friends had to get between the cowboy and the Indian to prevent a fistfight in front of the children.

Publicity about the incident did not bother Duke; it only advertised his conviction that Communists should not be working in the industry.

This was due to the decision that Sinatra hired Albertt Maltz (one of the Hollywood 10) to write a screenplay about Eddie Slovak, the one American executed for desertion during WWII. Duke's meddling incensed Sinatra, especially after the negative press and public outcry froced him to fire Maltz.

Did You Know: That Duke's agent, Charles Feldman was finding girls for Senator John F. Kennedy when he made frequent visits to Hollywood. Thought that was interesting.

Cheers, Hondo B)

Did you know: that Sammy Davis Jr. wanted to play the part of Jethro, Jim Bowie's slave, in The Alamo. Duke was alright with it, but Duke's Texas investors did not want Davis to play the part because of Davis' "uppity" and relations with the Rat Pack. And the other was the rumour that Davis was having an affair with a Swedish actress May Britt. Most Texans had little patience for interracial romance. Duke soon gave in and gave the part to Jester Hairston.

CHeers, Hondo B)

Thanks a bunch, Hondo. I really appreciate all of you going through your bios. Y'know, I realize Sinatra was tough & scrappy & everything, in addition to being about eight years younger, but I still can't imagine it was too smart for someone who weighed around 120 pounds to pick fights with someone like Duke. If these stories are true... That kind of "bravery" bordering on stupidity really kind of stuns me.

Jen,

You can bet, even though my book doesn't say anything about it, they were drinking, and I bet that Sinatra was drunk. He was very upset with Duke interferring with his screenwriter, but Duke was very sincere about Communism around Hollywood. He was a member and at one time the president in four one year terms of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideas.

I am sure that Sinatra was very grateful that Duke didn't punch him out or break his neck.

Cheers, Hondo B)

Ah... bravery of the liquid variety. It allllll makes sense now. Thanks!

I didn't even think of that - silly me! :rolleyes: