How many different style holsters did the Duke have from The Three Godfathers to The Shootist. I thought it might be 4 The Three Godfathers,
Hondo,and the rest until Circus World was the same style the belt he wore was the same through most i thought. Any help?
I would post the only pic of his holster i have but i don't know how? :)

In 1953 Duke had the rig we are familar with made for Hondo and wore a copy of it in every western with the exception of Rio Lobo in which he wore a different belt.
3 Godfathers , Angel and Bad. also had different rigs.
And I can think of one in the "B" movieswhich stood out.
To take a guess at how many others would be just that.
I heard that there were some on display at Old Tuson which were lost in the fire.
Also I can think of 4 Holster makers who claim that they made Dukes' holster for him.

Rick

What about the Shootist his holster was different in that and Eldarado the holster was the same but the belt was different.
A friend of mine who makes western holsters and a great authority on the westerns said the one we normally see the Duke wearing is an early version.
of the HONDO rig he makes which he said is taken from the holster in the Gene Autry Museum made by Andy Anderson. But i have never seen this holster in any John Wayne westerns.
Hope this makes sense.
Graham(Chance) :unsure:

Your right about the Shootist and also RED RIVER. It would have been something to see if there had been another western what he would have worn.
I'm about to say I don't give a damn about it, because as I posted before Alfonso , Anderson, a Brown, Bianchi,and ElPaso, claim to have made the well known holster.
I just saw one sold on ebay, the seller claimed it was a copy of John Wayne's grand fathers rig.legend in leather (http://www.legendsinleather.com)
Look under Hondo
That will give you a picture.
Rick

Hi Rick I also saw the Rig on ebay yes it was a bit humorous.
I agree with you about Legends in leather. I have 2 rigs made by Jim Lockwood
who i'm on good terms with.The first is the Hondo and the second he made for me which he has called Rio Bravo he's a good man.It's similar to the picture i've posted.Any way the Rio Bravo will be on sale on his web site shortly.
His work is Brilliant i reccomend it to anyone.Sorry for the sale pitch. B)

REASR and Chance,

I want to thank you both for bringing Jim Lockwood's web site to our attention. I looked at it last night and was drooling from ear to ear :D. I would love to get a set for my six year old John Wayne fan, but they're a little pricey for that. Just trying to find cap guns and holsters for a kid is a chore in this day and age. I had to go on ebay and pay a pretty penny to get him a set for Christmas. I've been getting more interested in these cowboy reenactment events, and also Mountain Man Rendezvous. My daughter got me a leather vest for Christmas similar to the Wah Maker vest that John Wayne used to wear. I'd love to get two or three outfits similar to the Duke's just for the fun of it. That stuff also gets real pricey for the working man with a wife and six kids (yeah, she just went on a wild spending spree, paying bills and buying groceries!).

Chester

hi one and all,

after reading what you have all said about the holsters and having just watched some more of the MANS movies i did notice that he had two styles from what i could see. one thing that i have to point out though with him being such a big man the rigs did tend to look so small more like a childs rig instead of a grownups one. but then a blunderbus would have looked small when the duke was holding it so this thought is not so suprising then. what do you all think?

cheers smokey

Smokey
The "Cowboy " holster started out as a piece of leather to put your pistol in.The belt a piece of leather to go around your waste to hold the other piece of leather.
The fancy rigs where 20th century, for the movies.
Duke carried one of these in his "B" days. When he hit his stride he went for a more realistic style.
If you ever run across a book called " Packing Iron", you may enjoy it.
And yeah Duke did make some things seem smaller.
;)

hi reasr,

could you please tell me the name of the author for the book "packing iron"so that i can see if my local lib. has it in. thanks for the heads up about the holsters i did wonder why they were so small compaired to the ones you see now a days. i have heard that they used to have 9 inch guns way back then is this true or just another fervey (tall story to you guys), if this is true how did they stop them from falling out when they rode their horses?

cheers smokey

PACKING IRON
Gunleather of the Frontier West
Richard C. Rattenbury

It runs about $45-50
You may be able to get one at Half . Com for less.

I have been told that a " properly fit " holster will hold a gun securely. ie: put the gun in.....turn it up side down, the gun should stay in.
But don't go to a showdown , its not a fast draw holster.
Some where along the line a leather loop/or strap with a slit in it was added to go over the hammer. But this is believed to have been done by Hollywood, to keep the guns from falling out!
Remember the cowboys carried them at their waist, not down around their hand, and with it tied down on their leg.
If you look at Duke's holster that we have been talking about , the holster has a forward cant to it, which is enough that on horseback it sits straight. Now I can't give Duke credit for coming up with it, the F.B.I. came up with it in the 40's. Holster makers refer to it as an F.B.I. cant.
As far as longer barrel guns......the '51 ' 60 Colts had an 8" barrel but most of these were carried in a cross draw formation.
The Texas Ranger. org and Teddy Blue sites had some vintage pictures of cowboys with there guns on.

Rick

You may enjoy this
gunbelt.....The Old Corrall (http://www.surfnetinc.com/chuck/gunbelt.htm)

Rick

hi reasr,

thanks for that i will give the local libs a try first as spending about $100 for a book is a little on the steep side.

thanks for the info about the holsters i did wounder about that for a long time as you said i did notice that they where worn a little high in the old paintings. i am sorry to say holliwood has a lot to answer for they have tended to distort the truth a little so that children now think that all cowboys wore the guns that they see in the movies. i have read some interesting book over the years where they talked about the guns of the old west and they spoke of a gun called they navy colt did jw use any replicas of any of the old west guns in his movies that you know off?

cheers smokey

I don't recall Duke ever using one.
They are a " cap and ball" loading gun, not cartridge. Like that Colt's Dragoon that Rooster didn't load right.
Which was a surprise since he boasted having two Navy sixes,in New Mexico.
( And that is why Josie Wales carried six, they were slow to load.)
Hollywood took liberties here too,and Duke was right among them.Their /his favorite was a '73 Colt SAA &a
'92 Winchester. Reason they were easy to obtain, but not
correct.
The Colt , 1873, the shorter barrel that he carried 1879 . The Winchester, 1892.
So the Comancheros set around 1840.
The Undefeated........1865
Rio Lobo .................1865
Dawn Patrol..............1861
are some examples.
He carried what appeared to be a Remington (1875) in the Horse Solders......1864. The reason I said appears, Hollywood would take a '73 Colt and add a 'fin' under the barrel to appear to be a '58 Remington which was used during the Civil War, but they left the ejector rod on which was useless since it was a cap and ball.
Another trick was to add an ejector rod to a .45 double action revolver so it appeared to be a SINGLE ACTION Colt. So it could be fired faster.
Mitchum has one when he goes into the church, and pears over the pue in Eldorado. But it magicly becomes a SA again.(This also happens in 5 Card Stud when they shoot the windmill.)
Actors like Eastwood and Selleck , along with period clothes, INSIST that their guns be correct too. Sellect even buys his own.
So the next time the Calvary comes to the rescue with their lever action Winchesters remember...........
NO LEVER ACTION was issues by the U.S. Goverment to its troops. <_<
Rick

The rig many makers like to copy and call "The Duke" I believe the one most people are familiar with. He actually had 3 or 4 of this particular rig made for himself. I saw one of them for auction on ebay a couple of years ago and starting bid was 10K.

hi reasr,

could not the calvary have gotten their repeaters from off dead indians? did not the repeater get invented after the war between north & south? i do remember reading some where that the calvary had troubles with people selling guns to the indians and from what was written it sounded like they were repeating rifles is this true or not?

thanks for the heads up about the navy being a cap & ball gun, did they at any time get converted into the other sort?
just a quick one how did they keep their guns dry in the wet weather and the snow?

do you know if the duke owned any of the guns that he used in his movies?

cheers smokey

Place a repeater at about the beginning of the Civil War.
some where used in the Civil War usually calvary.
Buford's men at Gettysburg. ( Spensers)
The Mich. Volunteers furnished their own plus ammo. This would have been 1863. ( Henrys)
A Trooper would have been allowed to have one, under the same terms. Some DID, have them. But a Winchester was $14 . troopers only made $7 a mo.

What the indians had, who knows there have been several types found to have been used a little Big Horn. But only by maybe 100-200 of the 2000 had them.
Most came from dead whites.
And again the movies have misled you.

Around 1870 some '51 and '60 colts were converted to cartridge. It was expensive and slow work. So it wasn't that popular.

They had as much luck keeping them dry as we do today.

As far as Duke he owned most of the ones he used in the movies.
In her book Pat Stacey tells of Duke sending back to L.A. for his guns, and having them brought to him.
As she said the prop man could have supplied him with some , BUT HE WANTED HIS OWN.

Rick

hi rick,

did the henry's also go by the name of "ÿellow boy"? was it because of the civil war that most of the guns were improved? were the spencer's used by the calvery because they were shorter then the cap and ball rifles use by the foot soldier?

i didn't get the info about the gun runners from the movies it was from a historical book and in that they invered that some of the guns were repeaters of what type not stated. from this book i was lead to believe that the gun running didn't start till after the civil war.

thanks about the duke's guns it is good to know that he used his own ones in his movies even if they weren't correct for the time of the movie. i watch some of "who want's to be a millionaire" and one of the questions was what was john wayne's nick name only an idiot would have got that one wrong lucky the lady got it right haha

cheers smokey

The '66 Winchester was the one known as the Yellow Boy.
It was loaded from the side,where the Henry was loaded from the front, ( Advenging Angel,Berringer loads one )
Spensers were loaded thru the butt.

The calvary was the first to recieve them, Lincoln was impressed with them.
Buford was lucky to have been issued them in June of '63.
And they proved their worth for a while on the opening fight at Gettysburg.
Previously they use a smaller version of the musket.

My comment on gun runners was more or less based on Fort Apache type.
Starting with the French (hmmm) guns were traded to the indians, for furs and such. Anything to make a buck.And continued for buffalo hides, but at a high price, (maybe 5-10 for a rifle).
The Army drove themselves crazy wondering where surrendering indians hid their guns, because only a few was turned in. And most were on reservations by 1880.
Probably the best armed band was Geronimo who surrender in 1886. At that time he only had 40 followers.

So as I heard it put once,
if you take the number of Henrys,"66 & "73 s made before 1880. And take the U.S. population....... you don't have many guns left for he indians.

Rick

hi rick,

thanks for helping me with the difference between the "yellow boy"and the "henry" in the books that i have read it wasn't made clear when the "yellow boy" was made. just another question did the winchester company ever have a comp for a rifle called the "one in a million" and do you know who won it? i didn't know that the "spencers" were loaded through the butt thanks for enlighting me about that fact.

yes the french did start trading guns with the indians this was done also to get the indians on their side to help them( the french) to fight against the early americans it had all to do with land i think.

maybe most of the guns that were traded with the indians didn't work and that was why they couldn't be found, is it true that the gun runners also ran booze along with the guns? maybe they were trading mostly the cap and ball rifles with a few repeaters thrown in.


cheers smokey

The '73 Win had a marketing ploy that every 1000 was perfect. Hence 1 of 1000. ( Winchester '73 / James Stewart & if I remember there was an episode of Little House on the Prarie )
A few years ago the '94 reached the 1 million production number, perhaps this is what you have heard.

You'll probably would find more "Whiskey Runners" than gunrunners. As the profit margine was greater, in that most made their own. Which caused sickness and death.

Prior to 1890 Black powder was used in firearms. This is very corrosive. And the firearm would have to be cleaned good, or it would rust. This is probably what took place with the indians who just threw them away.
This also happened to alot of guns that was used in the movies. As black powder was used so there was apuff of smoke for the camera.
Someone who saw some at the Autry Museum was shocked the see the shape that they were in. the fault of the prop man who never bothered to clean them.
( Matt Dillon used 12 different guns in the 20 year run of Gunsmoke)
But Dukes' guns that are in the Cowboy Hall of Fame are in great shape. Must be" star power"

Rick

Rick, You are truly a wealth of information. Very interesting also.
I've been seriously thinking about getting a reproduction Colt pistol
and a reproduction Winchester "Yellow Boy", although I don't remember
The Duke using the "Yellow Boy" in any of his westerns ( correct me if
I'm wrong).
Have you been to the Cowboy Hall of Fame, or Gene Autry's
Museum in LA ? I visited the Autry Museum about ten years ago, and
found it fascinating. I should have visited the Roy Roger's museum at the
same time but could not. I understand the heirs may move it back to
Branson, Missouri.
If you have any input regarding all the reproduction Colts and
Winchesters out there and which might be the best buys, I would
greatly appreciate it.
As Smokey would say, " Cheer's " , Chester

B) Greetings!
While browsing around, I found this website that makes holsters and belts. They have several that are reproductions of John Waynes rigs. Here is the link toW M Brown Holster Co. (http://www.wmbrownholster.com/holsters.htm). I hope this helps some of you who are looking for JW holsters.

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed reading it.

I don't recall Duke ever using a '66, he could have in the "B" days, but as I posted earlier, Hollywood until lets say the '90's used '92 Winchesters. They even wold go so far as to remove the wooden forearm, (wood under the barrel) , so they would resemble a Henry.( Bonanza, Hoss' rifle )
The '66 is a nice rifle ( mfg Uberti),but I guess you'll have a time keeping the brass shiney. And remember the '66 was replaced by the "73 ( new and improved).
Cabela's have them for $500-600 range.
A Colt copy $400-over 1000. Cimmaron (mfg Uberti) probably the best at $475.
A USFA Rodeo isn't as pretty but is US made, at $500, and has a life time warrantee.
But check outSASS links (http://www.sassnet.com/pages/sasslinks.html)
You should find links to all you wish for.
One word of caution, to wear a hat exactly like Duke's you should be 6'4' 250# or you will look like a mushroom. And you should be at least 6'0" to spin a rifle, the front sights hurt.

I've haven't made it to either museum, YET. But my sources are reliable.


And the Roy Rogers Museum opens May 24.

Rick

hi chester & reasr,

i have heard that you can get some good copies of the "old west guns" here in aust. but you can only get them through gun dealers and now if any are imported they have to have the barrels fixed so that they don't even look right this has to do with our new gun laws and to own a copy you have to have a licence, also with the introduction of new gun laws it is hard to import them now so soon all copies will be worth a lot here in aust well that is what i heard don't know how true it is yet.

have heard that the john wayne museum is great have seen it on one of our programs here showing people places to visit in america from what i saw if i ever get over there it would be one place i would visit.

thanks about the one in a million thingy it must have been that and i must have seen it on the news yes we do get some stuff from over there. i'm glad that some one had the gumpion to look after the dukes guns so that they could be enjoyed by all of us. i didn't know about the black powder and that it could cause so much damage but it is like now a days you have to look after your guns i can remember my dad oiling his 303 after pig hunting and helping him out he also put some graphite in it somewhere, he even tought all of use how to clean out our air rifle which we used to kill to cane toads and the occasional tinny (tin can). :D

well keep up the info as it is more interesting to hear it from someone who is passionate about the subject then from musty old books.

cheers smokey

Rick,

Sorry for the delay. I appreciated your response. Actually, I am looking for a hat like the Duke wore. I am 6'4" (or 5'16" depending on your perspective :P ) and pushing 300 pounds. I just ordered the Red River D belt buckle, so it looks like I'm heading down this trail one step at a time.

One question I have is whether to use cartridges of the period or go to modern caliber, as they might be more available or effective. I was wondering if they have single action Colts in 44 magnum that you could use the same cartridge in the US Navy Winchester rifle, etc.

Cheers!

Chester

Chester
you is a big one. You shouldn't have any trouble with a 6" brim. I 've heard good things about Colorado Mountain.Its just the $200-250 price tag. But a 5X should last a good long time.
You'll probably be after a Bib shirt......they run a size or two small.
As far as a gun what are you shooting?
Tradition calibers 44/40 & 45, price $9 - 14 a box ( 50)
44mag up to $18. 44spl $14-16 ( in place of the mag)
38spl $7-9 357 $9-12
If you reload take a buck or two off the lower price.
About a month ago I almost got a 44mag on a SAA frame, then I remembered the frame won't take alot of mags. That is why you hardly ever see them.
Now Ruger has the Vaquero in 44mag, its a little beefer frame which you may like at your size. I don't.
At first glance I can't tell the difference.
The three calibers should interchange with the counterpart.
The popularity of the 44/40 , 38/40 , 32/20 was due to the rifle /pistol, using the same cartridge.

You gonna put them pretty yellow grips on it???

Rick

Rick,

That's a " Big 10 / 4" on them " Purrdy Yellar Grips", If I could find them....

Chester B)

Well watch for two pairs and let me know!
I've had to letsome go on ebay after $100. :unsure:
I heard they run $150 - 200.

Buffalo Bros make a varation of them $65. River Junction sells them for about $20 less.

I've got 3 pairs and 3 different shades of yellow. Thats the only drawback.

Rick