Why did Duke convert to Catholisism on his deathbed, taking into consideration that throughout his life religion didn't interest him. Did he jump or was he pushed (by his son Michael?) Any comments?

I have a book written by John's daughter Aissa Wayne, it's titled John Wayne My Father. In it she says Michael Wayne did have the Archbishop of Panama come in to his room at UCLA. By this time John was heavily drugged on intravenous morphine. He mostly drifted in and out of sleep, and even when awake did not appear coherent, but in some sort of dream state. When his eyes did open that day the priest began reciting prayers in Latin. She says under the bedcovers she saw her father slightly nodding his head. She does not believe he was converting to Catholicism. She believes he was only acknowledging that a priest was in his presence and that they were praying together. She says John never said a word about wanting to convert or wanting to be buried instead of cremated. Some people may think he died a Catholic but she doesn't believe so. Aissa doesn't think he was coherent enough to know what was going on.

My wife just finished the book by Aissa Wayne, and adds that John Wayne apparently was friends with the Archbishop of Panama, so that it would not be totally out of place for such a visit to take place. She agrees with the previous post, that it is VERY unlikely that he made any kind of religious commitment on his deathbed.

I think it is very sad that the Duke didn't have more of a religious commitment. I'd like to see him again someday.

Chester

Hello All
Chester I understand your comment on his religion. I offer this suggestion for your consideration, there are some folks who wear their beliefs on the inside. In the movie The Alamo which as you know, Duke both produced and directed, there is a scene where a man comments on his faith, that the scene exists is an indication to me of how JW may have felt. We shall have an opportunity to explore this further down at Monument. I refuse to believe that I will not have a chance to visit with Duke and many others some day, on the other side of the river. By the way how did Oregon work out for your family. Did I miss something ( entirely possible given the number of posts and the few hours in a day), and have you rebuilt or do you plan to? murray

Lets see 3wives , 7 children , Ford , Ohara, all catholic ? Yeah its written that he made statements about joining during his life.
But he never did.
In the mid 60's he went out of his way to become a 32 degree Mason, quite the opposit of the catholic church.

So my guess it was Michael's doing.

I think thats its fair to conclude that when he was fit and well he resisted the chance on converting. Therefore to state that he converted while be semiconscious days before he died and heavily drugged is doing a major discredit to Duke and his personal beliefs.

From watching Dukes movies and from what he has said in interviews etc I have no doubt he believed in God, so Chester you will get your oppertunity after all.

:agent:

WEll there's really only one person that, if he believed or not, is important to and that's John Wanye. If he believed in God or not doesn't change how I view his movies or what he stood for on the screen and off.

Originally posted by erthomp143@Mar 29 2006, 10:57 PM
WEll there's really only one person that, if he believed or not, is important to and that's John Wanye. If he believed in God or not doesn't change how I view his movies or what he stood for on the screen and off.
29900


erthomp143

I didn't state that Duke had to believe in God in order for me to like him, I was watching John Waynes movies long before I found out about the man himself.

What I did state is that it seems clear from what can be garnerd from personal accounts of friends and from quotes by John Wayne is that he was a believer in God although not in organised religion.

I personally am happy he was a believer, I don't want to offend anybody by this post but on reflection I don't think it should offend anyone unless they want to be offended.

:agent:

I'm sorry if I came across like I was up set or that I thought anyone believed he HAD to believe in any manner, in order for them to like him or not. I have seen a lot of post, not here, but else where go bad when people start discussing what someone MAY have believed, when it really doesn't matter how they believed.

I for one hope that he believed in God and had excepted Jesus as his savior, but hey thats my hope for everyone...




(Jezz, I re-read this and it seems to me like I still sound ticked... I'm not offended, not ticked, not anything other than perplexed on how to get my point across on this subject)

Hello all,
I'm glad that it turnd out that way - that he died Catholic. But what puzzeles me for the long time - under what name he joined Catholic Church. It is imoprtaint if you pray for him or order a service for him at Catholic Church.
Regards,
Senta :rolleyes:

I am of the opinion that he "believed" in something.And it doesn't really matter what religion you practise,everybody needs something to believe in.I do find it hard to believe that he converted on his deathbed,if he hasn't done so during his life I doubt he would on his deathbed.Having an Arch-Bishop there might have made it easier for him to get to terms with his oncoming death,as I said before we all need something to believe in.This is only my humble opinion on this subject.

Liliane

Hello All
I must agree with M Sally in so far as believing in something. I find it takes less energy and feels better to steer towards the positive. For the topic at hand I consider the distraction of knowing your time is near and being kept company by well wishers and family. Like Reasr said the man had 3 marriages and led a busy life. At the time, there would have been no shortage of distractions. It makes little difference to me what people conceive my religion to be. My wife was raised Catholic and I was raised Protestant. I would have married her no matter what others thought her religion was. What mattered to me was -- how she lived, what she did, her morals and principals and how she respected others. I have seen a lot of 'Religious Folks' do things that I could never respect. I have read a bit about JW and the general picture I get is of a person who was not afraid to stand up for something. The Alamo and The Green Berets were made due to his determination to show the world something that he respected. With all due respect what I am suggesting is that I will not change my opinion of someone based on the possibility that they affiliated with a different religion on their deathbed. Medication and fatigue could have played a part in anything that transpired. The lifes work of that man has helped me get down the trail some days and that, I will never forget. Happy Trails to you all murray :D

Just got back from a week at the 26 Bar Ranch and missed out on this Subject because their Computer is down at the Ranch.

Duke was a Believer but said that He did not like the Organized Church, and Reasr is correct about Duke being a 32 Degree Mason and then Later was Made a 33 Degree Mason the highest that you can go in the Scottish Right. :)

So to be a Mason You must Believe in GOD. That is the first thing that You are ask when You ask to Join the Masons and if you say No, You do not get in the Door! :fear2:

As a Mason myself for over 55 Years we talked about what Masons Believed in on the Flying Trip to Hearst Wyntoon in the 1970s and Flying trips to Red River Land and Cattle Ranch at Standfield, Arizona and The 26 Bar Ranch at Eager, Arizona. :)

If you would like to read more about what Duke Believed in in His Later Years you can Go To the Sites Below. :rolleyes:

DUKE THE CHRISTIAN (http://www.wyntoontrip.com/DUKECHRISTIAN.html)

DUKE THE MASON (http://www.wyntoontrip.com/DUKEMASON.html)

Chilibill :cowboy:

Hi Bill,
Thank you for that great information and links. They were very importaint to me.
Regards,
Vera :rolleyes:

Hi All

Bill, once again you ride to our rescue.

Thanks for the links.

Emmanuel.

Hello All
Frankie Avalon was commenting on JW as director of the Alamo and he said that Duke had a priest and nuns on location the first day of shooting to bless the undertaking. murray

Originally posted by kilo 6@Apr 12 2006, 06:58 PM
Hello All
* * * * * Frankie Avalon was commenting on JW as director of the Alamo and he said that Duke had a priest and nuns on location the first day of shooting to bless the undertaking.* * * murray
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This information is widely known and doesnt substantiate the belief he converted on the last day or two of his life.

:agent:

Hello All
Hi Robbie, I do not mean to draw a connection between blessing a movie and conversion. My thought is that if it was a ' Priest" and not a protestant minister, then it may indicate that JW did not have strong convictions against the Catholic faith, at least at that point of his life. It might be that a Priest was available or closer at hand. As for conversion I prefer to value how a person lives over what they claim as the religion they are following. On another note I may yet contact you about the VHS you have for sale, budget is a factor and I recently ordered 8 movies from DDDvD. Hope all is well on your side of the great water. murray

Kilo

What I am trying to say is that its obvious that John Wayne had nothing against the Catholic religion otherwise he would not have married a catholic three times.

I am simply disappointed in the fact that there are those whom would try to convert him when he was on his sick bed against his desires when he was fit and well.

:agent:

Originally posted by Robbie@Apr 16 2006, 05:58 PM
Kilo

What I am trying to say is that its obvious that John Wayne had nothing against the Catholic religion otherwise he would not have married a catholic three times.

I am simply disappointed in the fact that there are those whom would try to convert him when he was on his sick bed against his desires when he was fit and well.

:agent:
30501


Well it's hard to know what's on a man's mind for sure when he's at his end.

I knew a man myself who was much the same personality of the Duke. This fellow also died of cancer himself from smoking. I saw in the last few days of his life a total conversion. He also made a death bed conversion to the Catholic Church and I'd like to believe that he and the Duke are up telling stories right now. He was a big fan of John Wayne by the way. Maybe the Duke was wispering in his ear there at the end to get right, who knows?

My thought is this, JW had no animosity against the Catholic Church. He was married to Catholic women and his children, at least some of them, were Catholic.

He was baptised on his death bed and given the last rites of the Catholic Church by a bishop no less. Fellows if you desire to have any hope for the big guy in the hear after, that's about as good as you can get!

Here is a link to a story about the Duke's grandson who is a Catholic priest.

He also speaks of JW's conversion here too.

http://timdrake.blogspot.com/2003_07_13_ti...ke_archive.html (http://timdrake.blogspot.com/2003_07_13_timdrake_archive.html)

Tbone;

Here is a little story that I put up a year or so ago that goes with what you said about Duke the Christian. :rolleyes: You can go to the Site Below for the Story. :)

DUKE THE CHRISTIAN (http://www.ranch26bar.com/CHRISTIAN1.html)

Chilibill :cowboy:

Apparently, the Catholic church would like us all to believe that Duke truly did convert to Catholicism. Read the following articles that just came out today -

"I'm a Cardiac Catholic" (http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/24/john-wayne-cardiac-catholic/#more-11814) - article in The American Catholic

a Catholic's response to the above-referenced article (http://catholicism.org/john-wayne-im-a-cardiac-catholic.html)

John Wayne was Raised as a Presbyterian and Passed away as a 33Rd. Degree Mason in 1979.
:fear2:
He Became a Free Mason in Tucson, Arizona in 1970 and went on to be the Highest Degree , or a 33 Rd. Degree Mason and was Very Active untill His Passing in 1979.
:wink_smile:
For You that Do Not Know any thing about where the Masons came from, it Started with the Building of Solomon's Temple.
:yeaahh:
Untill "King Henry The Eight Th." in The U.K. and the Break with the Catholic Church Most of the Masons were Catholics and Jews.
:uhoh:
After The Break-Up of The Church The Masons went with what were called None Catholic Churches.
John Wayne Did not like any of the Organised Churchs but Did Beleave a Higher Power !
:angel1:
At John Wayne's Passing His Son Mike Wayne Took Charge and as a Catholic himself Would Not let Duke Have His Last Wish to Be Cremated and have His Ashes Put In The Pacific Ocean Near His Home at Newport Beach.
:ohwell:
On Duke's Death Bed When He was On Pain Killing Drugs, Mike Wayne Duke's Oldest Son had The Archbishop of Panama "Mark McGrath" Except John Wayne into The Catholic Church !
:ohmy:
So John Wayne was One Of The Few in Modern Times To Be A Mason And Be Put To Rest As A Catholic !!!
:sad_smile:
Chilibill
:cowboy:
http://www.ranch26bar.com/MASONS.html


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