What do you think that is the Wayne movie with the most violence?

I would say Big Jake, but I didnt saw the cop movies jet, stupid me I was forgotten to record McQ.

cya jwfan

Well you would have to separate the War Movies, Westerns, non Westerns and such and define what kind of violence. Killing or just fighting. There is a lot to consider don't you think? <_<

pegwil54,

Just list what you think is the most violent movie that John Wayne did. If you would like to catagorize the gernes, that's alright, too.

I'd have to say that it has the be The Cowboys. With the violence that was done to Duke, and what the boys did to Dern, has to be a very violent type of movie that Duke was ever in. A lot of blood, and shooting, hitting, etc.

Cheers, Hondo B)

My vote would have to go to Big Jake. I remember being rather astounded at the gore I witnessed in that particular movie, the most blood I had ever seen in one of John Wayne's movies. Violent in that I have a vivid memory of the crazed looking guy wielding a machete - he was scary :o ! It's one of the few JW movies I won't let my seven year old watch.

Mrs. Chester :angel1:

I agree Mrs. Chester. I really like Big Jake, but when we watch it, we often forward fast through the slaughter of the men, women and children in the opening scene of the film. Its just too gorey. They don't actually show the effect of the machete, but they show the bad guy swinging it and it comes up with blood on it each time he lifts it. But the close-up blood-spattered gunshot wounds are the worst. Even Wayne's young son John Ethan is shown ramming a pitchfork into a man's face. Yuck.

I still think its a great film, but its not for the queasy. BAD GUY to BIG JAKE: "The sight of blood bother ya?" BIG JAKE to BAD GUY: "Only my own!"

GSP

there are 6 movies that i have in my jw collection that all have M15 + but the two you are all talking about i recon are the most violent Big Jake & The Cowboys not far behind mcq and brannigan then cahil and rio lobo.

I do agree that Big Jake is violent and just the sound of that Machete is unnerving to me. But I have to say that Big Jake is one of my favorite movies. The Cowboys which I also like was very violent too that is for sure. Bruce Dern is such a Good Bad Guy. I read that if given the choice again he would not have done it as it hurt his carreer that he was so mean to JW in that film. The Green Berets is another one that I love and have a hard time watching. Although with all the slasher movies and such now a days his movies seem mild in comparison that is for sure. I just can't watch a lot of the new movies they are much too violent and bloody and it seems that there is no need for it just the shock value. I am from the old school when it comes to that sort of thing. I like to be excited and scared at times but not overwhelmed with the gore.

Bruce Dern was great in the Cowboys. When he was on a Los Angeles morning radio talk show, the DJ introduced him as "Bruce Dern, one of the only men to have the honor to kill John Wayne in a movie"

As for the most violence, definitely Big Jake. I had watched Duke movies for years before seing Big Jake and was shocked at the amount of gore. You could tell the movie was made in the 70's when violence was starting to be "stylized".
However, Big Jake was one of his best later movies and one of my favorites.


"I was wrong, you haven't change have you, Jacob Mcandles"

"NOT ONE BIT!!"

Hey everyone,

There are very few JW films that I would think of when someone says violence, but I think I have to agree with the majority. Big Jake is probably his most graphically violent film, I think everybody leans that because of the same reason...the big dude with the machete...Jacob MaCandles called him "Fatty " in the movie, (everytime I here JW say that it makes me laugh..not sure why just kinda funny)...but the scene that makes me wince everytime I see it is when Fatty is hacking up Big Jake's beloved DAWGGG. even though we don't see this its a horrible visualization not normally seen in movies. You might see a dog shot or hit by a car but I have never in my life seen a movie were a dog is hacked up by a big knife...I think this scene alone makes this picture the most violent.

This is still my Favorite JW movie. With the exception of the shootist,to me JW plays a character that epitomizes what we think him to be. He is almost superhuman and definitely Larger then life in this movie then any other. Little things like when 2 people struggle to pick up the chest of money, and he grabs it with one hand, how people drop their jaws when he says his name, not to mention the relationship with his dog, and definitely my favorite line.... "Well, son, if you haven't learned to respect your elders, then it's time you learned to respect your betters" after which he pulls James from the saddle and into the mud. Its a very dramatic movie and the best persona of any of the characters he's played.


JM

i have to agree with you in that big jake is towards the violent dirrection but by comparison nothing like what you see now adays just in the news.
i have tought my son that if the box had (G) on it he can watch it with out me having seen it first but if it has a (M) on it then it is a movie only for grown ups and the (PG) ones i have to watch them first to see if they are ok and i have to say down under big jake has a (M) on it so i know my son will not watch it till he is a grown up.

cheers smokey

Got to admit i hadn't taken much notice of the violence. It never really bothered me.it was the sign of the times and i suppose the Duke had to go with that.

Big Jake is the most physically violent, I remember being on a different John Wayne messageboard and a person was talking about Big Jake the directors cut which he claimed was even more graphically violent, does this film actually exist.

The Searchers for me though is Johns most violent movie it is psychological violence and that is worse than all the blood in hell squirting out left right and center.

:agent:

Hi all

Talk about the stupidity of broadcasters in the UK. Big Jake was shown yesterday(Sunday) at 3pm, I was a little concerned about the timeing as I feel this movie should have been shown after the watershed however the movie did come with a warning before it was screened.

My fears came through upon viewing the movie however. The opening shootout was heavily edited with a lot of characters deleted out. When Maureen states this is I feel a Job for an harsh and unpleasant type of person it then cuts to Duke riding down a slope towards the shepherd. The classic scene of the viewer looking down the barrel of his gun was gone. The next bit of editing made me turn of the movie Dukes speech was ' you can call me farther, you can call me Jacob you can call me Jake but if you ever call me daddy again I'll finish this fight.

What is the point to this now the movie was destroyed, the edits were poorly done and a novice to the movie would have had a poor impression of it.

:agent:

Well, this is an attempt to keep my "Resurrection" title intact ^_^ -
The consensus from the previous posts from the past seems to put "Big Jake" first as the most violent of JW's movies and "The Cowboys" second. I would have to concur, but would add that "Big Jake" is more graphic while "The Cowboys" is more psychological in that, though the killing of JW is graphic, the rest of the movie has a pall hanging over it from his death, leaving a empty feeling in the viewers stomach.
Of course, none of Duke's movies have anywhere near the violence that movies made in the last 25 years or so have and that is a good thing!
Cheers - Jay :D

the rest of the movie has a pall hanging over it from his death, leaving a empty feeling in the viewers stomach.


I agee Jay, I have yet to buy this movie because I was never a big fan of it and it was because there was something I didn't like about it but could never put my finger on it. But, after you said that quote above I finally realised why I didn't care for it. It was just alittle too depressing for me knowing he was going to die in the film the way he did. It's not that I don't like the movies that Duke dies in, I love Sand of Iwo Jima and even The Alamo. Its just that the mood in the Cowboys was depressing to me. I may later on buy the film to round out my collection but I am not a huge fan of that movie, and now I finally see why. Thanks Jay.

Hi,
THE COWBOYS, was a bitter film, and was menacing,
from the beginning.It is no wonder at the time,
Bruce Dern became the most hated man in the World!!
Dave Grayson,Dukes make-up man, in his book, says, it was difficult,
to convince Duke, to portray such violence, which,
he had always detested in films.
It was generally agreed that,
THE COWBOYS was John Waynes most violent western.

Originally posted by Jay J. Foraker@Aug 10 2005, 03:17 PM
Well, this is an attempt to keep my "Resurrection" title intact* ^_^ -
20218

And a fine job of it you're doing :D ! Thanks for making these topics available again for our newer members, Jay.

Originally posted by SXViper@Aug 10 2005, 04:56 PM
I agee Jay, I have yet to buy this movie because I was never a big fan of it and it was because there was something I didn't like about it but could never put my finger on it.
20221
I think many of us had that uneasy feeling that we haven't been able to put our finger on, about this movie (The Cowboys). When you feel that way, it's often because there is some sort of subliminal message that's being offered. In this case, Bruce Dern (with his wild-haired hippy appearance and disrespectful attitude) was Hollywood's man, there to kill the Duke (we all know what he represented, and mainstream Hollywood would liked to have seen him dead for a long time :angry: ). That, I think, was the underlying message here, and on their part, they did a very good job of it. There's not many people who realize their liberal hand behind the scenes.

In our household, these are the two least-watched John Wayne movies we own. Big Jake, because of the graphic nature of the violence, and The Cowboys, because of the despicable way in which the Duke meets his death.

Chester :newyear:

Hi

If you remember that the Cowboys came out around about the time of the Peckinpah movies it seems natural that even the Duke's movies would need to keep up with the times. Certainly John Wayne was uneasy with the amount of fake blood used in the picture but eventually accepted it as a sign of the times. The way that Long Hair met his demise was also criticised by some as being over the top.

Of the two probably Big Jake is the more violent because of the start of the film and the part of the machette waving maniac admirably played by Gregg Palmer.


Regards

Arthur

I saw The Cowboys for the first time today, partly because it had been discussed a couple of times lately. I was a bit focused on the fact that I knew about the killing of John Wayne in it. I didn't react to this movie being violent at all. It didn't bother me that John Wayne died in the movie either. It was nescesarry for the story that this happens. Maybe I'm not big enough of a fan?

If you have a different take on it you might say that Will Andersons spirit lived on in all the boys.

Anyway I felt that this was one of the absolute best John Wayne movies I have seen.

I haven't seen "Big Jake" yet but the scene I have reacted most to in all the John Wayne movies is actually in "True Grit" where one of the bad guys cuts of the other guys fingers.

Regards
Popol Vuh

Originally posted by Popol Vuh@Sep 1 2005, 02:26 PM
I saw The Cowboys for the first time today, partly because it had been discussed a couple of times lately. I was a bit focused on the fact that I knew about the killing of John Wayne in it. I didn't react to this movie being violent at all. It didn't bother me that John Wayne died in the movie either. It was nescesarry for the story that this happens. Maybe I'm not big enough of a fan?

If you have a different take on it you might say that Will Andersons spirit lived on in all the boys.

Anyway I felt that this was one of the absolute best John Wayne movies I have seen.


Your reaction to "The Cowboys" and mine were identical, PV. I too thought it was an excellent movie and was not repelled by the killing of John Wayne as I also thought the act was integral to the plot. And just as you said, his spirit lived on in the boys.

Mr. Nightlinger's role was great too. I also liked the score.

Hello,

THE COWBOYS is one of the best westerns ever made!!

It is always hard to watch movies in which the 'hero' dies.(especially when its
the DUKE!!) I will agree that the fight scene and ending of Bruce Dern was something unique in JW's movies.(the violence)

To me Big Jake was more gritty by a longshot. I have not seen the movie in a long time but i still remember the image of the machette whacking on that dog!!

Thanks

Originally posted by thesherrif@Sep 1 2005, 03:00 PM
To me Big Jake was more gritty by a longshot. I have not seen the movie in a long time but i still remember the image of the machette whacking on that dog!!
21094

That is one of those scenes where your imagination works on you. On the set, the actor could be swinging the machette at a watermelon or thin air for all we know. But because the director builds up the scene and then has the editor cut the film just so, in our mind's eye, we see the death of the dog by machette!
Cheers - Jay ^_^

Good to see that some other people here feel the same way about "The Cowboys". I was afraid I was going to have to start posting only in the Newbie Forum for not having strong enough feelings about John Wayne dying.

Hi all,
For me it was really hard to see some scenes in "The Cowboys" and hard to take the fact that Dukes character died. Why they did it in screenplay. The film may be better with him survived from the wounds.
Dern is really awful, unattractive person.
Regards,
Vera

My memory of the first time seeing Big Jake is that we watched it after having watched quite a few John Wayne movies, and I was literally shocked at the graphic aspect of the violence - so much blood and visible wounds and of course, the machete man. It was such a contrast to all the other movies I had seen. I still won't let my youngest son (now 9) watch it.

As far as The Cowboys is concerned, it's not so much that John Wayne's character dies in the movie (a bitter pill for our youngest son to swallow, no matter which movie shows it), but the rotten way, being shot in the back. The flip side of that coin is that Wil Andersen died honorably and bravely, and was a fine example to the young men who worked for him. He wasn't willing to bow down or give in to scum.

Just my thoughts on the subject . . .

Mrs. C :angel1:

Hi Mrs. C,
I think you are right about The Cowboys, The Dukes hero dies honorably and this is the most importaint thing. For a pity I hadn't seen yet Big Jake.
My son (he is 14) was deeply impressed by the Cowboys.
Regards,
Vera

Howdy All,
I think I'll have to say that Big Jake was the most violent John Wayne film. Especially after hearing Harry Carey Jr. talk about it. I was watching some home movies of the Big Trail Convention from 1994, and Dobe was saying that when they filmed his death scene, they had him wired up with a bunch of blood squibs that would explode out of his chest when he was shot. He said the scene was so bloody, that he thought it looked like a slaughter house. Dobe said that Duke hated all the blood, and that most of it was cut from the final print, but I think what he said really shows the dark side of that film. All in all, I still think it is a wonderful film though, and one of my favorites. Next to Big Jake and the Cowboys, I'd also have to say that I thought The Shootist was pretty violent, especially when J.B. Books (Duke) shoots Jack Pulchard (Hugh O'Brian) through the forehead. Although the scene is pretty quick, you can still see the bullet hole in O'Brian's forehead. I can understand (I guess) the need for the blood and violence, but it seems contrary to what Duke once said about his distaste for the graphic violence in today's films.
Colorado Bob