As Davy said to Flaca, political arguments don't go well over people's supper. My suggestion ist to drop political subjects altogether. Please let me explain.

This used to be a board people of many nations could visit. Being of different origins means probably having been brought up with different opinions, too, in different circumstances, with a different view of the world. From an international standpoint, there even must be diffeent opinions about how things should be handled. One must be sensitive about that.

The internet just isn't the right place for discussions like that. Politics means to go the long way around the barn. It means long speeches if you want someone to understand the complexitiy of your reason. But long-winded speeches nobody reads on the net. You gotta be short (are you still with me here?) You say something nasty and put a smiley next to it, no offense meant. But one can still be needled about it. The same thing said mano a mano, a discussion about politics among friens at a table, that's different. Even as I'm writing this, I become aware that readers might get a completely different idea as they do not hear or see me tell it. Is he angry about something? Is this a fun-subject? Is he drunk?

I get a bellyful of politics each day at work. Therefore I try to avoid it in my spare time. Discussing film and the ones who make them, in my opinion, has got little to do with politics. If someone doesn't watch a film in which somebody participates who's on - depending on their own standpoint - "wrong" side, then it's their own business (but remember, film is never done by one person or political group alone). Personally, I'm less concerned about Chaplin's maybe having been Communist than with the legacy he left in films. But that's of course the way I myself approach film as an artform - not as a political platform - so it's up to yourself. I just feel that this board isn't the right platform.

It was mentioned on this board that a "liberal" couldn't possibly be an admirer of John Wayne. That's a remark that made me think a lot. Its' just that kind of political typecasting that prevented Mr. Wayne from being taken serious as an artist. His politics were judged, not his work. Many many times it was mentioned in his biographies that people came up to him, co-workers and such, expecting him to be a stubborn hawk. And he proved them wrong time and time again. But even now, dead as he is for 25 years, he has to stand up to that same argument. Henry Fonda was on the other political side. Would that mean that somebody being on the right wing side could not enjoy (or even look at) Mr. Fonda's work? I don't think so. I'm sure a "liberal" or "leftist" loves his country just as much. He's just got a different approach. Mr. Wayne always respected that. Of course, politics were important in his life. So if we discuss Mr. Wayne here, sooner or later we'll find ourself discussing his politics. But from a historical standpoint that should be. Discussing the politics of his times has little to do with expressing personal beliefs about situations today.

If something is meant in good fun, OK. Don't get me wrong. But why should we get into arguments about differences in politics if we are really here because all of us have one thing (and maybe that's the only thing) in common: our love for discussing that big man and his films.

In case you think all of this would pin me down in one political corner, you're wrong. But I won't spread my political wantings all over this board. Somebody feels like he or she found a soulmate in politics, just go to the chatroom.

Moderators, I hope you'll make a decision which has to stand. On other boards on which I'm trading friendly information, the rules are quite firm: No politics. No fights. If you do - out you go. Everybody who finds his way on this board, gets a great welcome, and that's nice. But that's not where the job of the moderator stops. If board rules are not clear on this, a board might very well be a ghost town sooner or later. Because some people don't argument, they just move away.

As Vandervoordt said: "Do you read me?" Then click twice. Please.

hi itdo,

i would like to agree with you on this point as we say in our house 'don't discuss politics ao religion at the dinner table as it will give you a gut ache' :D . the politics of one country will differ to another and to be truthful i don't particually like to read about another countries politics ;) as you say we have to put up with enough of this tripe in our own counties so i say with you itdo lets just talk about the one thing that makes this board great THE DUKE

cheers smokey :cowboy:

Hi

I couldn,t agree more. I am well aware that some of the topics are emotive to our cousins across the water, but like Smokey says they are confined to across the water. Most of the rantings pass over our heads.

For my own perspective I am very interested in the period of the House Unamerican Activities Committee with Senator MacCarthy. But that is history NOT politics. I would no more like to get involved in a political discussion over the rights and wrongs of the reasons behind the hearings than get into a political discussion about the Boston Tea Party, it happened and it's over, It is enough that it happened as a historical fact and therefore is fair game to be discussed and can be examined objectively and even with hindsight, but not in a way that gives offence or even worse brings about indifference to non Americans.


Regards

Arthur

I have found some of the political rants by members on this board to be both inconsiderate and very boring. There was a particular topic in which I stopped reading the posts as they were utter s**t. It has become very extreme as of late and I agree with Roland I was going to make a post myself when I noticed this, try to make this messageboard lighthearted and friendly don't take a condescending view that you are right and others are wrong. Again I would like to echo political rants are boring and a real turnoff and are putting me and others off this board look at the limited number of posts there have been within the last week.
ENOUGH STOP!

:agent:

Well, just as it was the Duke's practice never to tiptoe around controversial subjects, so it is mine. Quite obviously, the preceding posts are aimed at me. Since political subjects cause you folks so much heartburn, I'll go away and leave you alone because I will never moderate my opinions to please others. After all, as someone suggested, one of Big John's most admirable qualities was his championing of free speech and thought.

Originally posted by itdo@Mar 7 2004, 02:32 AM
This used to be a board people of many nations could visit.
Is it not any longer?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems this needs a little perspective.

As of this writing, this board has over 800 topics in all forums, and over 8000 posts. Unless I'm missing something (and I think I have read nearly every post on this board), there is one thread of recent date which contains some posts which could be construed to be "political" in nature that comes to mind. Even if there are a few more, it seems that the percentage is pretty low. Talk of quitting this board over that seems pretty extreme.


Originally posted by Robbie@ Mar 7 2004, 11:03 AM
Again I would like to echo political rants are boring and a real turnoff and are putting me and others off this board look at the limited number of posts there have been within the last week.
If you find a particular thread boring, don't read it. If you find a particular member's posts offensive to you, it's easy enough to scroll right past them. As to the limited number of posts in the past week, that happens around here every now and then, and I don't particularly think it's related to one thread out of 800.

I might remind all of you that John Wayne had some particularly outspoken opinions and didn't mind letting loose with them. It seems that for the most part, most people around here are generally respectful, aware, and control themselves. Every now and then, people just have to rant, and it's happened on this board before. Overall, I'd say we have a pretty good record of keeping things cool and calm.

As far as a specific policy, Kevin and the moderators will have to discuss that. Of course, the final decision is Kevin's (and maybe it's already listed in Terms of Service, and I don't know it).

I realize we all come from different walks of life and countries around the world, and may have very different perspectives on things. I have grown to know most of you that have posted here so far (as well as one can know someone else based on their posts), and appreciate each and every one of you and all you contribute to this board. I'm sure the moderators will be taking this up soon.

As a great man once said, "If everything isn't black and white, I say why the hell not."

Chester

[quote]
If you find a particular thread boring, don't read it. If you find a particular member's posts offensive to you, it's easy enough to scroll right past them. As to the limited number of posts in the past week, that happens around here every now and then, and I don't particularly think it's related to one thread out of 800.

Mr.Chester

I feel I must voice my extreme concern at your latest comment as I have myself in the past been put in place for my outspoken views on particular topics. Yet again several people voice there distaste for the constant politics but it is me whom is highligted and questioned. Why can't I have an opinion maybe different than others and be put in place for it it and made to feel guilty or wrong. I am getting a little tired with it to be honest and I again ask for an end to all the politics I'm sorry if that upsets you Mr. Chester.

:agent:

hi chester,

i don't mind people having a rant and a rave about things it's just that the discussion of politics gets a bit "heavy" going :( and as i come from a country where voting isn't a question as to whether or not you want to you have to do it or get fined for not doing it. :dead: we have had 1 polling this year for state government and are about to have another for local government and they are saying we could go to the polls again later this year for federal government so you may understand where i'm coming from when i talk about the "tripe". also most of what is being said goes right over my head as it is your in "house" politics if you know what i mean. :uhuh: yes duke did have some firm ideas but i thought we were here to celebrate his work not his politics. :D

now i've had my rant and rave lets get back to being plesent to one another and i will just skip the "heavy "parts ;)

cheers smokey :cowboy:

Hi Chester

Perhaps now that some sense is returning to this thread it may be time to put an amen to it.

But what I have found fascinating is the different expressions used to illustrate a point like Stumpy's
'ploughing ground that already been turned'
and Smokey's
'Don't discuss politicals and religion at dinner all you'll get is a gut ache'.

You could probably write a book on the different expressions and colloquisms that come out on the various posts.

Lets all keep up the good work

Very Best Regards

Arthur

Who was it said wer'e all divided by a common language

Originally posted by Stumpy@Mar 7 2004, 06:57 PM
Well, just as it was the Duke's practice never to tiptoe around controversial subjects, so it is mine.* Quite obviously, the preceding posts are aimed at me.* Since political subjects cause you folks so much heartburn, I'll go away and leave you alone because I will never moderate my opinions to please others.* After all, as someone suggested, one of Big John's most admirable qualities was his championing of free speech and thought.
Stumpy and Mr. Chester

You don't seem to understand my positon I dont find them offensive, just irritating, tiresome, boring and complete unecessary drivel which does not need to be in a subject titled 'How popular is Jw'.

:agent:

Hi all,

Please see my reply to the "How Popular Is John Wayne?" thread.


http://www.dukewayne.com/index.php?showtop...t=30&#entry8184 (http://www.dukewayne.com/showthread.php?t=854&st=30&#entry8184)

Now lets keep our shirts on folks. :mellow: I've seen very little political ranting on the site in the past 13 + months. I know politics can ruin a dinner and cause us to plough a field twice (or more). But, it can be discussed without being abusive, and demeaning.

I guess I'm an offender because I did post this thread awhile back. http://www.dukewayne.com/showthread.php?t=735. I thought the parallels where striking!

Kevin

The above messages are way too long to take time to READ!!!!!

Originally posted by Harold@Mar 10 2004, 11:43 AM
The above messages are way too long to take time to READ!!!!!
Harold,

If you think reading took too long, imagine how long it took to type it all! :headbonk:

Chester :newyear:

If you think reading and writing took along time, think about this. I have written about 10 replies and erased them because I didn't think my opinion was really needed and it was just good therapy!!

Originally posted by SXViper@Mar 11 2004, 10:57 AM
If you think reading and writing took along time, think about this. I have written about 10 replies and erased them because I didn't think my opinion was really needed and it was just good therapy!!
What I can't figure out is how you talk about John Wayne without discussing politics since his political views were so well-known and to many people (not me, of course :lol: ) controversial.

I've been a political junkie for 40 years. During that period, I've written innumerable letters to presidents, prime ministers, members of Congresses and Parliaments, business and labor leaders, educators and various other people about political issues that piqued my interest. What's paradoxical is that I absolutely loathe almost all politicians (and their progenitors the lawyers) but am fascinated by politics themselves.

Forty years ago I was the most idealistic, quixotic person you'd ever want to meet but after vainly butting my head against various political walls during that time, I've become extremely cynical about the whole political process. Now I say to hell with all the lying SOBs. :lol:

Stumpy,

I tend to agree with you about the discussion of John Wayne and politics. He was involved with political controversy that kept him from being nominated for many awards from the Hollywood elites. He received many from other organizations for his many contributions to his life's work.

So, I must say that unless we are talking about something else, John Wayne subjects would have little to offer on this board.

Cheers, Hondo B)

By The Way: Unless you are dead, how can you consider politics boring? I remember reading it from another post but can't remember who said it.
:rolleyes:

I don't post much here but I've been reading what's been going on lately. Being a non-American I think I had the same feelings as some of the other people here have expressed. It's extremely difficult to discuss politics across borders because people often take political arguments more as personal (or against your country) insults than just expressions of difference in opinions. For this reason I stopped years ago.

My problem with the thread mentioned was not the political views of anyone, as I don't care where people stand politically, but more the hostility against certain actors who I really have no idea what have said. What's more I have no interest in researching it further. To me an actor is an actor.

I don't have any problems with people discussing politics here either, as long as I don't have to. Problem here is that a thread has started out as one thing and progressed into a political discussion (or rant) later on.

Stumpy: I think you are right in assuming the posts were mostly directed at you. I still think it would be a shame if you were to leave the board. I would suggest however that you considered starting a new thread when you want to start a political discussion. You were probably not aware of the affects, but you actually hi-jacked a couple of threads, although you were certainly not alone in doing it.

"I think I had the same feelings as some of the other people here have expressed. It's extremely difficult to discuss politics across borders because people often take political arguments more as personal (or against your country) insults than just expressions of difference in opinions."

Thanks for your thoughts, Popol Vuh. I'm sure you're right that discussing politics "across borders" as you say, can be a very touchy thing, especially nowadays. As we all know, the U.S. (and a few other countries, notably Great Britain) have been heavily criticized because of going to war in Iraq. My personal feeling is that I won't criticize the citizens of other countries for their political preferences and/or actions and I expect them to reciprocate. But to pretend that political differences don't exist, and cannot be discussed, is just not realistic And during the Duke's lifetime, he was a very "political" person, with strong opinions, so I think it's also unrealistic to assume the subject won't arise when talking about him.

Just so everybody knows where I stand personally - I'm a strong nationalist. I know that many non-Americans place great value upon "multilateralism" and "international cooperation". I don't - I absolutely loathe the United Nations and wish the U.S. would withdraw from membership in that organization. American taxpayers furnish by far the largest amount of its' funding but U.S. influence in the UN is often frustrated by two-bit countries that contribute little or nothing to its' upkeep.

My problem with the thread mentioned was not the political views of anyone, as I don't care where people stand politically, but more the hostility against certain actors who I really have no idea what have said. What's more I have no interest in researching it further. To me an actor is an actor.

Ah, but therein lies the rub, my friend. Actors, like everyone else, have political opinions. And most contemporary actors are left-wingers who go out of their way to criticize not only President Bush but the country itself. Which infuriates a lot of people, especially right-wingers like me. I don't care what their politics are but when they begin very publicly criticizing my country, I get mad. As I said in the other thread, there have been many Hollywood performers who were, in their private life, known leftists. But you never knew it because they kept their political opinions to themselves. I can admire and respect someone like that much more than some jerk like Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, Alec Baldwin and others who appear on the nightly news condemning my country. Because of their celebrity status, these people get far more attention for their political views than ordinary citizens like myself and that's what angers me (and people like me) the most.

I don't have any problems with people discussing politics here either, as long as I don't have to. Problem here is that a thread has started out as one thing and progressed into a political discussion (or rant) later on.

Well, as I said earlier, I'm a political "junkie". I've always been interested in politics, per se, and so it's hard for me to enter into a discussion about almost any subject without sooner or later expressing a political opinion. When I first injected a political opinion on this board, please remember that I did not, directly or indirectly, criticize anyone by name. I didn't know, or care, what the political opinions of my fellow posters are. (Like I said before, what others do in their countries is their business, and none of mine.) No, I merely expressed a bit of anger and resentment at the very public criticisms by certain actors and actresses toward my country. Then others (and this is what was most revealing to me) all of whom were non-Americans began complaining about politics being injected into our board discussions. Which leads me to believe that my political remarks must have hit pretty close to home with some of the other participants.

Stumpy: I think you are right in assuming the posts were mostly directed at you.

I'd be a fool to think otherwise. And my mama didn't raise no fools. (if you'll pardon the colloquialism). :lol:

I still think it would be a shame if you were to leave the board.

Upon reflection, I decided I wasn't gonna let a group of non-Americans drive me away from a discussion board that was established, and is maintained, by my countrymen. After all, I live in a country where free speech is not only highly valued but guaranteed by the Constitution.

I would suggest however that you considered starting a new thread when you want to start a political discussion. You were probably not aware of the affects, but you actually hi-jacked a couple of threads, although you were certainly not alone in doing it.

Good suggestion, Popol Vuh. I'll remember that. I didn't consciously intend to "hi-jack", as you say, the thread. It's just that I don't like discussion boards that rigidly enforce restrictions on what can, or cannot, be discussed in various threads. I'm a free-wheeling character, without much internal discipline, who's apt to say whatever pops into my head. I'll try to do better.

hi there stumpy,

we may not all understand what you are talking about when you talk about the actors being in you face running down your country but i can bet we can all relate to how you feel when they do this no matter which country we live in, as we all have great prides in our countries no matter who we are.
it may sound that i have no interest in world politics but as i said before we have no choice we have to vote in my country and at the moment we are having political ads on telly which is really in our faces and i do like to come here to just get away from it for a while. maybe this subject has come up at a really bad time for me.
i too think that you should not exit this place as you do have some wonderful things to say, just keep plugging away you may even get some of us to take an interest in world politics you never know. like popol vuh said just start up another subject heading then see how it flies.

cheers smokey

Originally posted by smokey@Mar 12 2004, 09:19 AM
hi there stumpy,

we may not all understand what you are talking about when you talk about the actors being in you face running down your country but i can bet we can all relate to how you feel when they do this no matter which country we live in, as we all have great prides in our countries no matter who we are.
it may sound that i have no interest in world politics but as i said before we have no choice we have to vote in my country and at the moment we are having political ads on telly which is really in our faces and i do like to come here to just get away from it for a while. maybe this subject has come up at a really bad time for me.
i too think that you should not exit this place as you do have some wonderful things to say, just keep plugging away you may even get some of us to take an interest in world politics you never know. like popol vuh said just start up another subject heading then see how it flies.

cheers* smokey
Thanks for your kind words, Smokey. I think it's good that people, no matter who they are, take pride in their homeland.

I know that America is not always right in what she does but it's the only home I have and I'm very proud of her. I personally think America has been the most altruistic country in world history and it seems to me that Americans don't always get credit for that. Americans have shed a lot of blood and spent a lot of money helping others and it sometimes seems that all we get is a lot of criticism from those we've helped.

I'm not only a nationalist but an isolationist as well. I wish the U.S. would maintain a strict neutrality toward all other countries and stick our noses into others' affairs only when U.S. interests are directly threatened. As we know, that doesn't happen very often.

I get so sick of people saying, "Oh, the U.S. is the world's "last superpower". Well, to hell with that - let other coutries be so-called "super-powers". I wish we'd just mind our own business and let everybody else mind theirs. But it seems to me that the rest of the world expects America to solve everyone else's problems.

I'm not sure I'd like to live in Australia if you have mandatory voting. I don't like that idea because often the voter is faced with the prospect of "voting for the lesser of two evils". Which is really no choice at all. For instance, I'm not really thrilled at the idea of voting for Bush in November but because of my personal political preferences, the alternative of Kerry is even less appetizing. I'm caught between a rock and a hard place, as we say in the South.

Hi Stumpy

Of course I respect your views. And I like a man who speaks his mind.
On the other hand, I started this topic as a suggestion.
I suggested that politics should not be discussed on the board (there's a chatroom).
The reasons for my suggestions, are, I think, obvious. We all read a couple of strong reactions.
Now I hope that you respect my suggestion as well.
This topic was made to suggest TO THE MODERATORS to make a decision. Which, by now, if I haven't missed anything, is not been made.
Yet now I read another of your posts - in this suggestion to let politics be politics for the good of this board - which, at least in my opinion, proves that some of us are right. We mentioned our concerns - in a friendly manner - that topics like that would divide the group here. Pretty soon, you and me and others would have one hell of a conversation about how things stand in the world. But that's not why I come here.

Again, I love to talk about John Wayne. And that includes his politics. The politics at that specific time.

Right you are, this board is an "American board". And maybe that's what it's going to be in the future. But if you look at some older posts, you'll see that there was an international approach. I really think this is up to the moderators now. I for one can be still until that decision is made.

Have a great weekend everybody!

Hi everyone,

To address and put to bed the "politics" issue here on the board. I see no problem with political discussions as long as it's posted in the off topic forum. But from this point forward the mods and myself will be very strict on any thread that goes off the original discussion. We will start posting reminders in threads when we seem to be drifting from the original posters thoughts.

I hope I have cleared things up. If I haven't and anyone has any questions please feel free to pm me and we'll discuss it more with you directly.

Now this site is very much a international board. So any political discussion is permitted about any international country. But courtesy must be taken and being polite is required. We will not tolerate flaming, cursing, and/or any attempt to harass any members.

Kevin