The New Alamo Picture

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    That is really a good shot of the cover. I have been to the one at both San Antinio, and Brackettville. They are very simular except for the interior.


    Cheers, Hondo B)



    Quote

    "When you come slam bang up against trouble, it never looks half as bad if you face up to it"

    - John Wayne quote

    The thing historians always fight about (and that's the choice Wayne's art director had do make, as well as the one for the new picture) is: How did the chapel really look. The way it looks today in San Antonio isn't the way it looked in 1836. Some portion on top was added. Wayne's Alamo has a broken down top (note the windows of Wayne's Alamo, they are cut in half) whereas this picture of the new one shows the chapel fassade intact, the way it is today (of course, that's only a promotion, I have no idea how the new chapel actually will look in the film).


    Walt Disney made an interesting choice for the chapel when he did his version: he built his Alamo (or rather: his matte painter painted it for they never had a complete set) the way it is today - moving the Crockett barricade back! So the chapel would actually not be a very safe place for the wounded - that way it is exposed to the enemy, haha! I guess Uncle Walt wanted to have it that way so the kids who would visit San Antonio weren't dissappointed.

    Why do I get the feeling that this movie is going to be a big deal in Texas? ;)


    Looks like it should be a good one - thanks for the link, Roland.


    I haven't seen Wayne's Alamo picture yet. Do you recommend I see that one first?

    jen,


    to watch or not to watch that is the question, well if you want to go in to watch this movie without and preconseption of what to expect then i would advise that you don't watch dukes alamo but if you want to see how they have changed it or to see how they are able to pull it off after the dukes version then watch dukes alamo. this can be only your choice but as i have dukes alamo i will be going to see it with as open a mind as i can, this being that movie making has come forward in leaps and bounds since duke made his alamo. if you can get yourself a copy of dukes alamo on dvd i would advise that you do as it has a behind the scenes look at the making of this movie with interviews with mick wayne and some of the cameramen and such.
    all i can say is have a good time making up your mind and i hope you enjoy the new movie when you see it


    cheers smokey

    " its not all black and white, but different shades of grey"

    Thanks, Smokey, for the thoughtful reply. Either way I'm going to be losing the benefit of having no preconceived notions of what I think it should be about. I have a feeling Duke's flick is more idealistic and romanticized, so I think I'm going to see that one first.


    :)

    Make sure you see the UNCUT version first (yeah, here I go again), the way JW intended it to be seen, and to my knowledge you'll get this 191 min version only on VHS or on Laserdisc (the DVD has the old gutted version - look out!).


    AFTER you saw JW's original dream, you can go ahead and watch the cut version and cry.


    And THEN you can see the new flic.


    If they even come close to the JW-version (which they won't, they can't) I'll switch boards and can be found at Billy Bob Thornton's messageboard from then on.

    From arthur arnell
    Hi all
    This is what one English newspaper has to say about the new Alamo:


    [quote] THE PLOT
    In 1836, 189 Texans withstood siege from a Mexican dictator at a place that became known as The Alamo. They held out for 13 days before losing their lives in the attempt.


    THE HYPE. Remember the Alamo? The Yanks love patriotic film, so expect plenty of support stateside.


    THE EYE CANDY?
    Wins points for Jason Patric. Loses them for Billy Bob Thornton as Davy Crockett.


    MOST DRAMATIC MOMENT
    The gory bloody battle of San Jacinto.


    WHAT'S THE DAMAGE?
    A relative bargain. Filmakers grew 21 varieties of crops specific to Mexico on a special 51 acre site and built 70 buildings at a cost of$95 million (£57 million)


    HIT OR TURKEY
    Depends - if they resist the temptation to rewrite history. The tale doesn't end well for the Americans, which never goes down well across the pond.


    OSCAR POTENTIAL?
    Oscar winning producer Ron howard has a magic touch - remember 'A Beautiful Mind'


    Personally having seen the original uncut version and being aware of James Edward Grant's love of elequence I found parts especially when Travis was explaining his strategy to Ken Curtis slightly tedious.
    As a film the Alamo stands out in the Duke's repotoire as one of his best and it seems criminal that a personnal dream cost him so much to fulfill with virtually no monetary reward.

    Walk Tall - Talk Low

    hi all,
    I thought that Russel Crowe was going to play Davy Crockett, but I can be wrong.


    I'm looking forward to see the movie, and I hope that in Holland Wayne comes in the news again.


    cya,


    JWfan

    Nope, maybe Crowe was "considered" at one time (or maybe they just spread the word to make use of his star-name to drum up some publicity) but now it's definitely Billy Bob Thornton as Crockett. I expect a lot of him. Haven't seen a bad performance by this man yet. He's in theaters over here right now, with a very very funny cameo in "Love Actually", that british film. Do you get that over in the US? Hope so! I had an interview with director Richard Curtis (he wrote "Four Weddings", "Notting Hill" and "Bridget Jones" and the "Mr.Bean" sketches) and actress Laura Linney as well as Ricardo Santoro (of Charlie's Angels fame), and it was quite funny to do it, too. Asked Curtis what he hated about Americans (which caused quite a reaction from Linney) because it seems he likes to see Americans in his films as the kind of stupid tourist. Note the line "torturing Americans" in "Four Weddings", the stupid US General (Burt Reynolds) in "Mr. Bean - the Movie", and even the way Julia Roberts behaves in Notting Hill. Now its Billy Bob doing the US cliches (playing a horny president). Curtis answer? There is a percentage of stupid people in my movies, and therefore they have to be the Americans! :lol:
    The man made a very funny and romantic movie. Go see it! It'll be some time before we can see Billy Bob defending the Alamo.

    I finally got the chance to see the new Alamo version - had to get the DVD, even had to get it from overseas, since the film never made it to our cinemas. I guess the distributors feared the theme would be to alien for Europeans, and of course, it's not an upbeat ending.


    Anyway, what I was really waiting for is the scene which caused so much discussion between the "Crockett surrendered" and the "Crockett fought to the death" people. I think the film quite cleverly choose the middle road: Crockett didn't die fighting, but he didn't beg for his life neither, going down with a smart line offending Santa Anna. In all the Alamo movies I have seen, this is the one most accurate to history, as far as it's known, I'd even include the IMAX presentation which is only shown in San Antonio, unfortunately. But then again, the Alamo is about myth, and I much prefer it that way on the screen. Of course, with every new Alamo movie they make, one has to fear: Are they going to be better than the beloved Wayne movie (not that there's much chance though, but anyway, that's what you think). And time and time again, they don't even come close. Ha!

    Hi Roland


    The latest Alamo hit our cinema in late September and laster a week, by the time I decided to go to see it it had gone.


    You saying that you saw the DVD, especially this quickly, is interesting is it European or American? Eventually I want to get to see it in order to make my own mind up.



    Regards


    Arthur

    Walk Tall - Talk Low

    :cowboy: The latest attempt at an Alamo movie was a definate bust. Remember when Ron Howard decided not to be the director of this movie? It was because he did not want to have his good name associated with a project that he knew would be a stinker.


    Do you guys know why this movie bombed? It was because hollywood tried to rewrite history again. They based this entire film off of the now proven faked De La Pena documents. If you do not know who he was then please continue reading.


    De La Pena was a Colonel in Santa Annas Army. He was supposed to have written a multi page document on what he witnessed at the Alamo. His version says that Davy Crockett surrendered and was executed. His documents were also not written by De La Pena himself. They were written by at least four people who were gathering notes when sitting with him when he was sick with Malaria. When one has a bout with Malaria, one is also not fully in one own mind either.


    These documents were written by the four ++ people mentioned above. Well, im not sure what year they were supposedly "found" by a well known and VERY fradulent Mexican Antiquities dealer. These documents can be compared to The Hitler Diaries; which too were fakes.


    Anyway, Captain Dickensons wife and a Mexican Army Sergeant both wrote books saying they saw Crocketts body surrounded by at least 15 dead Mexican soldiers. The Mexican Sergeant also had stated that he saw Crockett die in combat. Crockett was not executed.


    If you ask my opinion on the latest version of The Alamo, I would skip watching it (as I did) and just enjoy watching the older versions instead--even if they are not totally accurate and even if hollywood then took some things out of context.


    One of the prettiest songs I ever heard was "The Green Leaves Of Summer" which was the one used in John Wayne's The Alamo.


    Just my two cents worth TRK.


    PS, I am a Texan and live about 2 1/2 hrs drive from The Alamo. I also had a relative who fought and died there which was Robert Evans.

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    Ringo; It does look like every few years they try to Re-write the story of the Alamo. In the late 1950s I helped do a few Short-Stories for the Phoenix News Paper, and one of the stories was about what my Grandmother told me about what her Grandfather had told her about the "Alamo". I was born in Arizona but all the rest of the family were from Texas. If you want to take a look at the stories you can go to STORIES OF THE OLD SOUTHWEST Chilibill :cowboy:

    :cowboy: Hello Sir, I fully agree with you. Hollywood is destroying fact and trying to pass it off as fiction. I am wondering why they are trying to destroy our national heroes such as Davy Crockett, Georgs S. Patton Jr etc? I am perplexed.....


    I did take a look at the story you provided and found it was a very interesting one to read and was very enjoyable. I think our families have some close similiarities. The people who took in my Father and Uncle into their house in the early 1930's (not relatives by blood bur we definately did call them family)


    Well, my "Grandfather" Harry A. Folts, was one who also fought against Pancho Villa before ww1. My Grandfather recaptured a Winchester 1894 that had once been the property to someone who had lived and was killed by Villas outlaws at Columbus, New Mexico. Well he also "liberated" a rare type pistol as well. He got these weapons from the bandits he killed.


    I do not know much about his involvement in fighting Villa but I do know that he was with an outfit that was from South Texas. I do not know how many fights he was in with the exception of the one where he acquired the Winchester and the pistol.


    I wish I had photos and more facts for you. Your presantation was very well done. I wish I had more to go on about a relative of mine who was at The Alamo too. The only other thing I know for fact on that was that a Cousin of mine shares his name.

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    I think it's fascinating that you have relatives going all the way back to the Alamo.
    I hope you don't mind my talking about the subject, being a foreigner in terms of Texas history, but the theme is definitely intriguing. I think you should watch the new version, just for the sake of having seen it. Because I think they didn't set out to destroy the myth, just to make a new version with aspects we haven't seen so far. As production values goes, it certainly is the most handsomely mounted production since Wayne's version, certainly there was more money spent than on the other films, including the IMAX film and the Burt Kennedy version. The Alamo and the town they built look really great and ring true to historical paintings. They are true to little details, even re-creating Crockett's west, the one shown in The Alamo today. With the exception of the Crockett execution, the battle seems to be all the way true to the facts (they don't show someone trying to blow up the pulvera).


    But then of course they want to give the audience what one expects - just with little differences. The death of Bowie, for instance, is directed like all his movie deaths before, shooting two pistols from his stretcher - yet this time he just has time to reach out for his knife before they cut him to ribbons. Being true to history and yet trying to be entertaining was a difficult task I imagine. Like in the scene of Crockett arriving in Bexar, someone greets him: Hey, Davy! And one of his men instantly clears this one up: "He prefers DAVID." Which is true to the records, of course, yet as an avid Alamo fan, wouldn't you just want to hear them call him DAVY?

    :cowboy: Hello Itdo.


    I too also think its fascinating that we had at least one relative at The Alamo. Years and years ago I remember when my Mother was doing all the Geneology and research on our family tree. I remember the many trips we made to San Antonio and to Austin where she would be doing hours and hours of research.


    I also found it amazing at some of the historical figures that we are related to. Figures like: U.S.Grant, Cordell Hull, King Haakon the VII of Norway, Bonnie Prince Charlie, and Barbara Eden. ((I'm sure there are others but, I just cannot recall names at this time)))


    I don't mind you talking about the subject ;) that's how we learn.


    On seeing the movie, I just don't know if I could ever break down and do it. For me it is because they changed some very important parts of the proven history ((such as Crocketts death))) that I do not think I can bear to spend any money on this film.


    As for how the buildings looking more historically accurate in the movie, that is good and I applaud them for that. However, in all my years of reading books on Davy Crockett, I have never seen it mentioned that he preferred to be called David--except when he was at a formal gathering when he was a Congressman.


    I know John Waynes version of The Alamo took many liberties. I never liked the Crockett death scene in his version. I do like the movie very much overall as something enjoyable to watch and for as many times as I have seen it, I never tire of the movie.


    When I was about 5 yrs old, I did get a chance to visit John Waynes "Alamo" which is in Bracketville, Texas. However, I do not remember anything of that visit except that I ran up a ramp I think where in the movie, they had placed a Cannon on. Other than that, I remember nothing of the visit except that was where we bought a John Wayne bumper siticker that I still have. It reads: GOD BLESS John Wayne.


    I do not know what facts are changed in this new movie but, from the scenes played in ads and on Entertainment shows, I just do not think I would enjoy watching this movie.


    Take care and Cheers, TRK.


    By the way, the guy who said "it do" in the movie, I think was a local person living in or near Bracketville that they hired for the movie. Anyway, from what I understand, he still lives in or near there.

    Es Ist Verboten Mit Gefangenen In Einzelhaft Zu Sprechen..

    "It do" Rudy Robbins went to Hollywood after The Alamo and also played a part in Wayne's Green Berets. I met him in Brackettville a few years back, and he told me that he came back to the area when his movie career didn't take off. He's playing in a country band.


    Of all the Alamo movies, which one would you consider the most accurate?
    I'd have to say, despite the execution scene, it would have to be the new one (we're only looking at historical accuracy now, of course).

    Hi Roland and Ringo


    I haven't seen the new Alamo yet and having only read downbeat reviews I won't say anything until I have, and by the time the DVD comes out here everyone would probably have forgotten about it anyway, but apart from THE Alamo (the Duke's version). I liked The Last Command but as you say probably not very accurate.


    How would you rate the 1939 Man of Conquest starring Richard Dix? The film is quoted as being one of the best to come out of Republic and was nominated for three Academy Awards. The blurb represents it as being a true record of Sam Houston's life and in the picture he tells Travis that the Alamo is not only not worth defending both from a strategic or military point of view, but orders him not to attempt to defend it. I believe that this was in fact the case.


    It throws an interesting point on the whole question of accuracy, and I suppose the only way it could ever be proved is by looking at Houston's dispatches, if they ever existed or what happened if the subject was discussed in a private conversation between the two men.


    I suppose that is what makes history such a fascinating subject.



    Regards


    Arthur

    Walk Tall - Talk Low